S1E8: Talk Hiring

In this episode of The Konsole Podcast, we interview the CEO of Talk Hiring, a software company that is revolutionizing how people prepare for job interviews. We talk through the entrepreneurial journey, inspirations, and challenges in growing a start-up from the ground up.

Music Credits: Don’t Stop by YFLY

Listen: https://ffm.to/yfly

Work With Talk Hiring: https://www.talkhiring.com/

Transcript:

Bryan Uribe: Hey, everybody. My name is Bryan Uribe. 

Daniel Guiney: And I’m Daniel Guiney. We’re here with another episode of Konsole Consulting. With us today. 

Bryan Uribe: We have… 

Harris Osserman: Harris from Talk Hiring

Bryan Uribe: How are you, man, Harris Osserman? 

Harris Osserman: Thank you. 

Bryan Uribe: So, Harris Osserman, what is Talk Hiring and what do you do for Talk Hiring

Harris Osserman: Yeah. So, what Talk Hiring is; it’s a free automated mock interviewing tool. So, what that means is people can practice, gain confidence in their job interviewing skills. We have over 100 different industry-specific or general interview questions. It’s all over the phone; low tech. You can use a landline or a mobile phone. 

And after each mock interview, you get an email that has all your recordings, so you can listen to yourself and think through how you could do better. As well as feedback on how you can improve. 

So, right now, we report on volume, tone, duration, pauses, filler words, and the STAR method and we’re always adding more to the automated reporting that we give. 

And then the cool thing is we work with organizations that help people find jobs. So, we have a like a companion product where the career coach can keep track of who in their class is using it, how they’re using it, what questions they’re doing, they can listen to the interviews, give their feedback. Yeah, that’s what Talk Hiring is. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s super powerful. So, you’re evaluating… was it seven different kinds of what?

Harris Osserman: It’s six right now. 

Daniel Guiney: Six categories of speech through… You said you could do it through a landline. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: Which is good. I want to touch on that a little more. 

Harris Osserman: Sure.

Daniel Guiney: Because everything coming out now is just always like advance text. This is cool that it ties into anybody who could use it. 

Bryan Uribe: Low tech. 

Harris Osserman: Low tech.

Daniel Guiney: Low tech. And it’s such an interesting topic because interviews nowadays are a pivotal point. I know we’re moving into the automation world and all that, but you can’t take out the human aspect of things and people do look for that. So, having a service that can enhance that for individuals that may otherwise be challenged to do an on-facing interview; powerful. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. And I think that the biggest thing with what you’re doing and just knowing what Talk Hiring does is it’s removing the friction from this whole written application process that people, I know, we’ve spoken about this before, that people may not just be good at. You may not be able to write well, but you can communicate yourself extremely well. 

So, it’s a very powerful tool. I always liked technology that kind of starts to even the playing field for everybody. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. That’s the goal. Ultimately, we want to build this voice-based hiring platform so people can talk about themselves instead of writing about themselves. And the mock interviewing tool is the first product in that ultimate journey. 

Daniel Guiney: 99 percent of people like to talk about themselves. Alright, like that’s the thing; in general. And it comes more easily than writing about yourself. I’m sure you’ve read blogs or blurbs about yourself for doing seminars or something; it’s challenging. I have somebody else write it for me and I give them the information because I hate doing it. I don’t like writing a little paragraph about myself. 

Bryan Uribe: I feel like it’s kind of invasive. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s strange because it’s about you; like even writing about your own company. Like, I don’t want to sell you on it. Dude, I think I’m awesome and the company is awesome. I’ll tell you about it. But having to write it and put it down, there’s a different level of amortization. Like you are immortalizing your narcissistic thoughts about yourself and it makes a lot of us very uncomfortable. So, I think that’s super powerful. 

So, why Talk Hiring? Like why did you start it? Why does it exist? 

Harris Osserman: Yes. So, for a long time, I’ve known that I want to start a company and I built a lot of failed companies, but why I started working on Talk Hiring specifically, is I was an engineer at a few different startups in New York City and I started becoming uncomfortable about the impact that my work and just automation and AI was having on the workforce. 

And I started volunteering on the side just to understand how to people get jobs when they’re laid off or when they become underemployed or whatever happens. And I worked with this awesome program called The Hope Program. It’s a nonprofit in Brooklyn and the Bronx. And they’re a workforce development program. They help people train and gain confidence. There are a lot of emotional challenges when you’re unemployed and then help them get jobs. 

Daniel Guiney: And just one time for the audience; if you don’t mind, just breakdown Workforce Development. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, it’s an umbrella term for organizations that help people improve their job skills and then help them get jobs. So, like job readiness programs; it can be a coding program, it can be a restaurant training program, it can be a general program that can be targeted at certain demographics or certain employment backgrounds. Things like that. 

Bryan Uribe: I’d like to at least touch on like what’s the impact of people not having a tool like this? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. I mean, for the mock interviewing tool, the impact is huge because there are so many people who have interviews coming up. They probably don’t have someone to practice with who’s also a really good interviewer act. 

I was listening to a podcast yesterday. They were saying that the only way to get better at something is to rehearse whatever that thing is that you’re trying to get better at. And whether it’s you’re trying to get better at the SAT, you want to take more like simulation to the SAT or whatever. 

So, if you want to improve your interviewing skills, you want to interview someone that you don’t know. Not like your mom or something. 

Daniel Guiney: Right. 

Harris Osserman: Because they’re going to be nice to you and practice it whenever you want in an easy simple way. 

Bryan Uribe: I mean, 10,000 hours; right? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: And then the voice-based job application, that that’ll be super powerful because there are so many people, even in just New York City, that are going to these programs, getting help on the résumés, their cover letters, their job applications. I mean, it’s amazing how much time is spent and how many people could be helped if there is an easier way. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. I think that’s something so interesting, especially when you consider something that we’ve spoken about into the past is underemployment. And a lot of infrastructures that exist right now for people to get jobs isn’t very conducive to some of the people that actually may be great candidates. 

And at least underemployment where you’re a scientist and you’re working at Starbucks. Like, I don’t know if caramel macchiato takes that much writing like a… 

Daniel Guiney: It’s like {indistinct 06:55} their solution. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, you’re not solving some of the most pressing issues and I think it’s super interesting. We would love to dive in more on how it works and what’s the experience like for somebody that wanted to use Talk Hiring? Like what would that look like if I go to your website and I say I want to use your platform? 

Harris Osserman: So, you go to the talkhiring.com website and then at the bottom, you click, “Let’s Interview.” You text your name, email, choose a question bank set over a text message. We also support doing it via the web because if people have a landline, they obviously can’t text message that way. And a lot of our population doesn’t have consistent phone access. 

Daniel Guiney: Sure. 

Harris Osserman: So, yeah, you can either do it a text message or through the web to start your interview. You can start it right now by calling in or you can schedule for later. We have a simple calendar integration where you pick any time that you’re available and then at that time, you’ll get a call that will start your interview. 

Daniel Guiney: And it’s all automated. 

Harris Osserman: Right, it’s all automated. 

Daniel Guiney: These aren’t real people.

Harris Osserman: So, we work with professional voice actors. No, so it’s recorded, people. 

Daniel Guiney: Hello, welcome to your interview.com 

Harris Osserman: I played around like with robot voice or just text to speech voices sound good enough. But they just really don’t. 

Daniel Guiney: There’s just that human-like warmth to it. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: Even Siri sounds kind of weird. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: And she’s got along better. So, I love Siri. Siri, I love you. She’s great, but yeah, I think for the kind of environment you try to create, that’s way more powerful. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. And so, each interview is five questions. You can do the same questions, different questions; totally up to you. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: And I should say it’s up to five questions. Like if you hang up after Question 2, you will detect that and still send you all your feedback and all your recordings. 

Yeah, so it’s up to five questions, usually takes about 10 minutes, depending on how long you talk for. We’re not going to cut you off. And yeah.

Daniel Guiney: {indistinct 09:12 – 13}. 

Harris Osserman: No, because there are they’re not mock interviewing, but real automated interviewing on the employer side and they will cut you off after a certain amount of time, which is it so stressful if you know you can only talk for two minutes; it’s tight. So, yeah, that’s how it works. 

Daniel Guiney: Now I wonder; this is a crazy question. It may not apply, but tell me if it does. Does it also work in an inverse? Like can you help people train or on how they interview people with the software? Was it only how to be interviewed? 

Harris Osserman: Yes. So, I had thought about that. It is only how to be interviewed. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: But an employer that I was talking to thought that it would be cool if you could use something similar to evaluate the other way and then you could detect if your interviewers are good if they’re using a consistent process, things like that. 

Daniel Guiney: When you interview someone, that shit’s hard, man. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah absolutely. 

Daniel Guiney: You’re trying to quantify like you’re giving someone a position or you’re not giving someone a position that has a dramatic impact in their life. But if you give it to the wrong person that she is going to have a dramatic impact on your life when they come in and they drop the ball. 

Bryan Uribe: Absolutely. Yeah. Dude, I think that’s so powerful. And again, it’s still like I don’t feel like we as humans were engineered to go through those kinds of scenarios and situations. It’s just like we’re fight or flight; like it, if not interview, it’s not fighting or flight or interview. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, either fight or flight or interview. That could be the name of a podcast. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, let’s do that. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, that’d be great. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah.

Harris Osserman: But the good thing is that because it’s over the phone, a lot of people are more comfortable at that kind of medium. If it was a video app, you would be staring at yourself; which is a lot more uncomfortable. And it wouldn’t feel as human because you would probably be staring like an avatar or something weird, maybe recorded human, but the phone aspect makes it a lot more real. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. Now, before we dive into more of the intricacies of like the actual business and your expansion model and all that kind of stuff, I like to take a moment and focus on the “why?” 

I know you touched upon it a little bit of your experience with hope and how that kind of germinated it, but if you could expand with more on how this seed came to sprout. Do you have any specific instances you might think of that you were like, “Wow, there is a need for this?” 

Harris Osserman: So, I was thinking about it as I started working with The Hope Program. And then, me being a lean startup guy, I just put up a splash page and wanted to see would people be interested in calling in and making up the job application? 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: So, last April or maybe March, I put up a splash page, put $10 of Google AdWords behind it a day. I think I got like 41 calls in 10 days. 

Daniel Guiney: Oh, my gosh. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s the go.

Harris Osserman: And people kept talking about why they’re interested in a product like this. I didn’t have any jobs at that point, so I would help them usually with their resume. But yeah, are a lot of people are commiserating with how they wanted to use something like this. 

Daniel Guiney: You had a serious nerve for that splash page.

Harris Osserman: Yeah, it was pretty fun. 

Daniel Guiney: You want to tell everybody what a splash page is? 

Harris Osserman: A splash page is just a single-page website where you’re… For me, it was testing an idea. But it can be not testing an idea, like when you have a business up and running, but it’s just supposed to be very simple. People go to it and there’s a clear call-to-action. 

Daniel Guiney: Very cool. All right. 

Harris Osserman: And a really fun story from that is because I was working full-time at that point, I was using the service called Grasshopper. So, I had a 1-800 number people would call in. But during the day, I couldn’t take phone calls. So, I had it routing in my mom’s cell phone and she wouldn’t pick them up. She didn’t like it.

Bryan Uribe: Hi, this is a mom answering. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. So, I shut off after 10 days. But it was great. 

Daniel Guiney: Very cool. You had a hot nerve. I would agree. You know, just anecdotally, interviewing is something that people need help with. 

Harris Osserman: Mm-hmm. Yeah. The like the reason why I got excited about this is I had never really done workforce development stuff up until last February, but it does it feels amazing when you help someone get a job. Like I would help someone with their résumé or help them with their interview skills and then the next week, they would tell me that they got that job or that they had an interview for that job or whatever it was. And it’s awesome.

Daniel Guiney: You just dramatically changed the course of their life. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, it’s feedback. 

Harris Osserman: I mean, it’s not just me, but the feeling that you get and just realizing that this is a really important thing to work on; it’s great. 

Daniel Guiney: And you say it’s a free service; right? 

Harris Osserman: Right. Yeah. The mock interviewing tool; it’s a free tool. We work with organizations that help people get jobs; these workforce development programs. And the nice thing is their goal and our goal is the same. And a lot of them have kind of complicated purchasing processes that I would rather avoid. 

Bryan Uribe: You’ve spoken about them.

Harris Osserman: Yeah. It’s a free product so that they get all the benefits of it and we’re aligned and ultimately helping people get jobs. 

Daniel Guiney: Would you say that you guys find synergy working together? Yes, let’s go. 

Harris Osserman: God. 

Bryan Uribe: He says that word goes everyone, dude. Every podcast.

Daniel Guiney: You know it’s coming. You know it’s coming.

Harris Osserman: No, man. 

Daniel Guiney: But that’s the mission. You’re trying to find synergy and build out something where you and the other organization there can come together and provide more value than you put individually for the end consumer guys. 

Bryan Uribe: Guys, this is an ad for Konsole Consulting. If you need to find a place in your mission to use the word synergy, Daniel Guiney is your guy. 

Daniel Guiney: Call me up. Oh, yeah. Let’s go. Oh, yeah. All-day. It’s all about synergy.

Bryan Uribe: Kid loves. 

Daniel Guiney: That the whole new game in it. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, I think we spoke about that when we spoke last time. 

Harris Osserman: That synergy? 

Bryan Uribe: About the word synergy and how I feel about it. 

Daniel Guiney: I just feel like it’s consulting-ey and usually it results in some downsizing or something. I don’t know. 

Bryan Uribe: Yes.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, I know. It’s got to be the positive side of synergy. 

Harris Osserman: There are positive sides.

Daniel Guiney: Now that consulting comes into it, we’re going to {crosstalk 16:16 – 19}.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. Yeah, I think that’s awesome. So, dude, you know I’m a fan of Talk Hiring and what you guys do. I think it’s really powerful, really important. And I think that it’s a massive problem that not so many people are focusing on. 

So, I want to dive in more on like what are some of the business challenges you’re facing? What are some of the nuances within your business that you kind of has to deal with especially, how big is your team? 

Harris Osserman: Very small. It’s me, part-time engineer; who’s also going to school for coding he’s in Lander school and an intern for the summer. 

Bryan Uribe: We like Lander. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

S1So, you’re a three-person team. It’s all engineers. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, but I do all the non-engineering stuff, plus a lot of engineering and they only do engineering.

Bryan Uribe: But you’re an engineer by trade. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: So, it’s three engineers. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Nice. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. And not to devalue engineers as business people, engineers look at problems in ways that the rest of society does not. Engineers or scientists; it’s a different way than the way you guys look at those problems. 

So, what are some of the business challenges you’re facing as you look to scale; as you look to make this into a viable business generating revenue? It’s a viable business now, but, no offense, it’s a nonprofit because you’re not bringing any money. 

Harris Osserman: Right. We don’t get any money. 

Bryan Uribe: Right. So, what are some of the things that you’re looking at on your roadmap to get to profitability and just some of the standard challenges you’re facing today?

Daniel Guiney: But do you intend to take it to profitability or is it another nonprofit based organization? You know, in my other career path, I specialize in nonprofits space. Let me tell you, there’s a lot of money in nonprofits. These aren’t organizations that don’t turn money. They’re bringing millions through the door annually and executive directors are making significant salaries to manage these large organizations. Maybe not comparable to corporate or enterprise company of the same size, but with that said, you know, please expand. 

Harris Osserman: Yes. So, on the nonprofit versus for-profit, I had always assumed that I would build it into a for-profit so that if I’m helping people get jobs, I can charge employers, bring in revenue that way. 

Daniel Guiney: Sure. 

Harris Osserman: But yeah. right now, the mock interviewing tool makes zero dollars. We have made less than a thousand dollars on a previous product that we built, which was Automated Interviewing for Employers. So. we have some free employers and some paid employers on that product. 

But business challenge wise, there is a bunch. One we could talk about is how to get… So, we’re running all these pilot programs with Career Development Organizations. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: And a lot of them are great organizations, but it’s hard to get the whole organization on board to use the product, just like in any organization. 

So, figuring out, initially, I’m talking to one person then that one person has to talk to their whole team and then that whole team maybe needs to bring another team on to start using it and just not… I mean, the product is one of the simplest tech things I’ve seen on the Internet. But still, there’s the stuff that people have to know and figuring out how to share that knowledge and get everyone on board has been tough. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. Could you walk us through a little bit about it? And we always preface any of these questions with don’t give away the secret sauce. So, if there’s anything you can’t touch upon, it’s proprietary, please feel free to shut us down, otherwise, we will keep asking you questions.

Bryan Uribe: We’ll dive deep. All your IP will be on the internet. 

Daniel Guiney: So, if you could just touch upon a little bit of how do you approach that problem now? What does that look like? So, say you’re talking to someone at a company; how does that look? 

Harris Osserman: You mean, from like how I do the first initial conversation? 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Even before it’s a sales pitch. Like how do you position the organization? 

Again, if this is the secret sauce. You get it. 

Harris Osserman: Yes. It’s not really. I mean, the other side, the workforce development organization, it’s very clear for them to understand what we offer; a free mock interviewing tool. So, they’ll talk to us about it, try to understand more about how it works, what it does, how it could fit into their organization. And then they usually have to talk to whatever other team members they have. We have them signed an MoU and then move on with a pilot. 

Bryan Uribe: And for those in the audience who don’t know what an MoU is.

Harris Osserman: A Memorandum of Understanding. It’s a one-page document so that they know what we’re going to offer and we know what they’re going to offer. And it’s just set terms on how long we’re going to test this how for, what’s expected from both sides. 

Bryan Uribe: Awesome. 

Daniel Guiney: Outstanding. So, all of these conversations are coming from… 

Harris Osserman: Like how am I meeting these organizations? 

Daniel Guiney: Yes. Is it just like something you run into?

Harris Osserman: It’s pretty easy. One of the best ways is job fairs. I go to job fairs all the time, all over. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: Preferably not in New York City; like Manhattan job fairs. Just because they’re way too crowded. And if you’re not a candidate, like they have way too many people to talk to. But going to job fairs in New Jersey and the other boroughs, Westchester. So, that’s one avenue. 

Bryan Uribe: Are these corporate job fairs or just general job fairs? 

Harris Osserman: It varies. It can be counties put on job fairs, it that can be colleges, it can be US Representatives put on job fairs; some colleges do, but usually, it’s for the students. So, I don’t go to those. 

Daniel Guiney: Now just over that. Have you given any thought to bringing this to a college as part of the orientation program? 

Bryan Uribe: Or their exit strategy. 

Daniel Guiney: Or their exit program. Yeah.

Harris Osserman: Right. Yeah, colleges could be great. I haven’t put that much effort into it because… 

Bryan Uribe: Somebody in this room is on an Alumni Board. 

Harris Osserman: That is true. 

Bryan Uribe: So, you got that. 

Harris Osserman: The reason why is because initially, I was more focused on programs that had… there were Workforce Development cohort-based programs where I would know that it’s an X Week program, there are this many participants, they can introduce into the curriculum. If it’s like a college that has a career coaching team, there’s usually not a program; it’s just people ad hoc dropping and it’s hard to test if something works that way. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, but it’s a great expansion opportunity.

Bryan Uribe: Sorry. You said it’s hard to test how that works. 

Harris Osserman: What does that mean? 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. Because as part of the pilot, we know that the product technically works, but we want to know, “Does the organization like it and do the job seekers like it?” And so, we’ll set up like what does a successful pilot mean? What kind of usage do you want to see? What type of interview improvement do you want to see? And if it’s just ad hoc, people dropping by, it’s hard to see any of those. 

Bryan Uribe: So, my question for you is are you saying is the expectation for the college to define success or are you defining success? Or do you guide them to what success looks like?

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. They don’t know what they want.

Harris Osserman: It’s a group. Right, exactly. They don’t usually know what they want. I mean, ultimately what they want is more people getting jobs. 

Daniel Guiney: Sure. 

Harris Osserman: But the problem with that is there are so many factors that go into are you getting a job? I can’t measure that well. I mean, we can measure that, but I can’t evaluate if Talk Hiring is or is not helping people get jobs. But yeah, it’s a guiding process. 

Bryan Uribe: So, what are the other variables. So, résumé is one. 

Harris Osserman: For getting a job? Yeah, résumé; there’s just what skills do you have? 

Bryan Uribe: Activities could probably be another one. 

Harris Osserman: Like are you a good possible employee, just personality-wise; like are you motivated, are you applying to new enough jobs, are you’re applying the right way, are you networking? I don’t know. Are you rational about what kinds of jobs are applying for? Are you just reaching too much? 

Daniel Guiney: I guess also the tenure, like once you get the position; like are people getting jobs that are appropriate for them. 

Harris Osserman: Exactly. 

Daniel Guiney: Right? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Like you’re talking about under hire is a huge issue. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: The major problem you touched on before was how you get this integrated into an entity; an organization. Once you get that conversation, you said that was one of the primary problems you touched upon. Do you have an established workflow? Are you coming in and dropping the bomb on them with like, “This is what this looks like?” 

Harris Osserman: No. I mean, I know how to describe the product. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: And then the thing that they’re most excited about because they serve a lot of people, is they want to know are people using it and how they’re using it. So, the fact that they get access to a dashboard to see how they’re using it, how the students are using it; that’s usually like a huge plus. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Harris Osserman: And yeah, then we talk about how to run a pilot; like how our pilots work because we set some, you don’t want to run like a 12-month pilot or ideally, two to three months, but it depends on the program. 

Bryan Uribe: So, if you’re not charging for the platform, so why is it a pilot?

Harris Osserman: Yeah. The reason is that a lot of small organization, they probably don’t care that much if it’s a pilot versus not a pilot, but for larger organizations when they want to roll out a new initiative… I didn’t even start by offering pilots, it was organizations who wanted it to be some control… 

Daniel Guiney: Pilot program. 

Harris Osserman: Right. I know that most organizations want to do it that way, so I’ll do what they want that way. 

Daniel Guiney: Kind of crazy question on it. I know some people like the analytics of it. They like the show me the data. But then there’s the other side of the coin of people that are just big picture and just want to see it and then put it live. Do you have an infographic currently created that shows a workflow? 

Harris Osserman: I don’t have any infographics. 

Daniel Guiney: I would challenge you to create one and start just dropping down on people’s heads and see how they receive it. Because something it’s they could easily forward, it visibly shows the process and it helps simplify something a little bit hard to conceptualize, if they don’t have you there you have to break down the entire process. 

Harris Osserman: So, like how-it-works infographics? 

Daniel Guiney: Exactly. Not even the intricacies of it; like we’re going to increase this by this, just show one person going through the process, even like little avatar characters or something, starting it, what they do, how the process works and then like the result and show the transition of implementation to execution. 

Bryan Uribe: Again, like one of those like shoots-and-ladder ones where it goes like this. 

Daniel Guiney: Exactly. That’s the word I was looking for. Yeah, shoots-and-ladder sort of thing. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, I think they’ll be interesting. All right. So, now I’m going to challenge you a bunch. 

Harris Osserman: So, one thing is we are producing alike an explainer video right now which should help with that. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Absolutely. When you finish, you can send it to us so we could put a link at the bottom of this. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah.

Harris Osserman: Yeah. It should be done early next week. 

Daniel Guiney: Outstanding. 

Bryan Uribe: Nice. Yeah. So, some of the things I want to dive in on. So, from a sales perspective, it sounds like there’s no point in getting somebody into your sales funnel if you’re not making it easy for them to convert as a client. So, like I could have 100 thousand people that want to pay me money and there’s no point in them wanting to pay me money if I don’t even know what I’m going to charge them or how I’m going to charge. So, that’s my first challenge to you is set some expectations as to what cost looks like. 

I think what you’re doing is interesting and we probably have to have this conversation offline. I think what you’re doing is interesting because I know the numbers behind it. We’ve spoken about this before and the economics behind running Talk Hiring. Understanding what could be charged and what they would pay for is first. 

Because you want to run a pilot, it would be for three months. Okay, great. That’s cool. All right. Well, three months pass and if it’s a pilot, you truly have to deactivate their account; if we’re keeping true to what a pilot is. 

But if it’s a pilot and it just rolls it over into a freemium, then it’s just free, then well, I just never deactivate you but I just have to now support you and you trying to make your students the best students they could be or your workforce their best. We’re not saying that that’s the only one, but the for-profit organization is my understanding of it. That’s the second thing. 

The third thing is a pilot will never work if you just say, “Hey, here’s this microphone. Go test it out of you and tell me what you want to do.” So, for example, when we got the mic, you were like, “Yeah. Alright, it’s on WAV.” Then you switched it to mp3 and you’re like, “Oh, my God. The file was so much smaller.” I’m like, “Dude, ours like a Gig. I got 2 terabytes on Dropbox. That’s not a big issue.” 

So, we kind of figured it out and it was more like, Daniel Guiney, no offense. “If you would just ask me, I would have been like, “No, I’ll just leave on WAV.”

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: There are things that I’d do the same thing with him, where it might just be like a plug or app and I don’t know how to deal with it. So, it’s like, yeah, not everybody’s like Bryan Uribe, Daniel Guiney, and Harris Osserman. Especially within some of these non-profit organizations where there’s not a direct incentive to do so. 

Daniel Guiney: But they have limited capital. Not financial capital but human capital were to implement any program, they have to stop doing something they’re doing now where they’re probably already wearing four/five/six hats to implement this. And without a very guided pilot, I think it would be difficult. I’m not sure what you found, but I think would be very difficult for them to implement this effectively without having a team member on staff or someone that understands the exact workflow of this is how you do it. 

Bryan Uribe: And even piggybacking on that, there’s no incentive to do so. The only incentive is an emotional incentive that my class will now get more jobs. 

Harris Osserman: Right, more interview. 

Bryan Uribe: The reality of it is I think under the circumstances of a nonprofit, it’ll be much more likely to get somebody to come out and say, “Hey, Harris Osserman, thank you for teaching me about this and holding this classroom. I got this job and I haven’t had a job in a year and a half” or “I’ve been working at McDonald’s and I’m now a garbage man” or whatever job it is and the person is going. 

So, I think the problem you’re solving, the benefit that it draws to the end-user because you have three sets of users. So, you’re actual users getting the job, then the employer will the employer gets the candidate that they otherwise thought that would have been a shitty candidate and then you also got like the actual nonprofit organization and in that, you also have multiple different clients or customers that you have to sell. 

So, the benefit that is brought by your product to your users; whether it’s a customer, it’s the employer or the actual employee. It’s interesting because if you’re looking at the nonprofit, which is the middle layer, I’d call it. If I’m in class and I’m using Talk Hiring and Daniel Guiney’s teacher today, “Damn it. I don’t want to learn this shit.” That’s what Daniel Guiney’s saying, “I don’t want to learn this shit. I’m not getting paid more for this. I already have my curriculum. I know what I’m doing. I’ve been doing it this way for 15/20 years.” 

Whereas if he used it, he may see it instant benefit three months later or a month later, but he can’t measure that immediately. I’m not coming up to Daniel Guiney and say, “Hey, that Talk Hiring app is amazing. I got a job.” It doesn’t happen the next day. 

Harris Osserman: Alright, man. 

Bryan Uribe: Typically. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I know. 

Bryan Uribe: So, I see that to say that what you’re doing is sensible; the idea is simple. There are so many layers to it that if you lack one of them, the effectivity just drops. So, some other things I would say. 

Daniel Guiney: And it’s a game of the telephone, man.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. What I would kind of say like…

Harris Osserman: That’s what it is right now. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, a hundred percent. What I would say kind of like to what Daniel Guiney was alluding to; it’s you’ve got to hold your hands through it, bro. You’ve got to like, “This is exactly what’s going to go on. Every week, I’m going to follow up with you. And then once we hit the first month and you feel comfortable with it, I’ll come back one more time and we’ll do one more like presentation review of it. Let me do it with an actual class this time and then it’s a bi-weekly follow up from there for the remaining three months. 

And what you’ll find is all of your questions will come out within the first two weeks. The third week there tells you whether they like it or not. The fourth week, you get more of a verdict and they’ll probably tell you, “Hey, I feel comfortable with this” or “I need a retraining” and that’s your opportunity in your fourth week and then everything past that, it’s more like, “Hey, it’s still working. Haven’t seen anything” and now you’re getting user feedback. 

Harris Osserman: All right. 

Bryan Uribe: So, I think you should be looking at it more from a transitional perspective of like the bulk of the resistance you’ll get in your first 30 days. And then the next 30 days, you’ll probably just get optimizations and recommendations maybe a couple of qualms. I don’t think too many. And then your third 30 days, it’s like, “Oh, this is something cool, man. This is great. The students like it” and then you’ll start to see some success. 

Harris Osserman: Right. Yeah and the nice thing is, for a lot of the career coaches, when the students really like it, then that just incentivizes them more to want to use it. 

Daniel Guiney: Absolutely. 

Harris Osserman: But yes, we’re making that explainer video to make it easy for that teacher to know what to expect, what to tell the students. But it’s a hard problem. 

Daniel Guiney: And it’s got to be automated; right? 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: Because you can’t physically be there to do this every time. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Especially if it’s a free product. Unless it’s a premium like option later on. 

Bryan Uribe: I’m looking at some of these workforce development organizations, they may have over 20 different instructors and they all work on different time schedules because there are the people that work during the day and they can only come at night. There are the people that are night hours and they work at night. They only come in the day. So, it’s a little bit of a logistical… 

Harris Osserman: And some programs are in New Jersey like I can’t be in New Jersey all the time. 

Daniel Guiney: And as you can see there’s nationwide. 

Harris Osserman: Right. I can’t be gone. 

Daniel Guiney: You can’t. You’re going to do like the 50-state tour. I don’t know, man. That’s bold. Let’s take this to the next level and talk about the paid version of this or the paid component. Because that’s what this is going. Free is nice, but it is part of your sales pipeline at the end of the day. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: Like you’re providing all of this outstanding value that they can’t get anywhere else upfront. And then what? Talked to us about that. 

Harris Osserman: So, ultimately, I want to keep building and improving on the mock interviewing tool. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, it’s two separate entities. 

Harris Osserman: Right, exactly. But that will feed into the voice-based hiring platform. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: So, how that would work is people that call into a, can imagine it like in the old days when none of us were alive, but you’d look at a newspaper and you see the classifieds and you call a phone number and that would be how you applied?

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: So, I want people to do something similar where they’ll call into a relevant phone screen that’s automated in the industry that they’re looking for. At the end of the interview, then they’ll be able to take that phone screen and use it to apply to different employers that are hiring on the product. 

And then using a similar model where I’m not sure if it’s like how I’m going to charge employers if it’s going to be for a certain number of job postings or a certain amount of time or do like a placement fee. I’d probably start with a placement fee just because that’s similar. 

Daniel Guiney: Like in the {indistinct 36:52}. It’s like free postings, but then you can like to enhance it. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, where you can do the like yeah indeed pay-per-click model. But there are a lot of options. Ultimately, I just first need to prove will an employer pay for voice-based job applications? 

Bryan Uribe: I think that’s something that you could do right now. But I think you have a massive opportunity that’s just being overlooked and I think going with the placement-based compensation model, positions you very unique because you have, I don’t know how many interviews you have, but if you have called it a hundred or a thousand or a hundred thousand, however many interviews you have on your platform that are recorded and stored, you say, “Hey, guys. I have this talent pool of 2000 people that answer these questions. Would you like to vet these and go through which ones you like to pursue? It is free to check it out. This is a pilot, but I will charge you a placement fee for this person” and just kind of establish that as a contract. 

I think that’s a really interesting way to do it, initially. So, that’s not going to convert to money tomorrow. I think the long-term would be badasses if you charge it as a subscription-based model. Where you say, “Hey, Mr. Corporate Customer. You’re going to pay me a thousand dollars a month and you’re going to get access to over 600 thousand candidates through X amount of different workforce development organizations and you could tie it up.” You tier it up and say, “Hey, you want to add your questions or you want to use to Talk Hiring standard questions?” They’d probably say, “I want to add my questions.” “Okay, it’s a dollar a question.” 

Now, you have 30 different positions and you have your 5 to 10 or 20 different questions. Probably try to cap that too, but it’s 10 questions; it’s a dollar every one. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I know. There’s a lot of ways that I could take it. 

Daniel Guiney: I don’t know if you could take it to like the fucking stratosphere by using some like AI machine learning to start sorting through the responses and pairing them with the placed positions and I see what kind of… 

Bryan Uribe: I do have a little bit of a challenge and I’d love to talk through it now if you guys are open to it. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, let’s talk through it. 

Bryan Uribe: I was thinking about that earlier when you were talking about the interviewing platform and that’s the challenge right now with… So, there are two challenges that you face from an employer perspective. First off, it’s somebody that’s super busy and that they know that they have to hire people, but there’s a fire on their desk right now. They have to blow it out. 

So, if you’re going to automate this process for them, will you just go into the world, and this isn’t a bad thing, but this is something I came to mind, will your product inevitably be something that captures audio and translates it and transcribes it into a written piece of the report on the person’s interview and they could just read through that? 

Harris Osserman: Right. It would do that. And currently, we do that. 

Bryan Uribe: If that happens, are we going to get back into the situation that we have right now with HR platforms? When you’re making an application, they’re only looking for the buzzwords? 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: So, that’s kind of like a risk right there on what your conversion might be. And then you just become a volume player. 

Harris Osserman: Right, but I don’t want to do that.

Bryan Uribe: You may negatively impact what the mission may be. I don’t know this to be true. But that’s just one point. And then the other thing is what kind of infrastructure or environment do you set up? For me, the hire to listen. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: Because it’s on my computer now. I just log it whenever I want. And guess what? I’m not logging in for two weeks. And I needed the guy yesterday. 

Harris Osserman: Well, so the first question. 

Bryan Uribe: Sorry dude. 

Harris Osserman: I know. I’ll go there. {crosstalk 40:38 – 40}.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, this is what I was thinking; you know? 

Daniel Guiney: For sure. Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: So, part of the reason… it’s like… As time has gone on, the job application process has gotten crazier because people have to apply to more jobs to get an interview and then they keep applying to more and more jobs. So, we need more and more automation. That’s to him as not a great job of filtering people. 

Daniel Guiney: Absolutely.

Bryan Uribe: We may need to stop the automation. 

Harris Osserman: Well, I would love to stop the like… You could evaluate talent if not so many people are applying for jobs. 

Bryan Uribe: Hundred percent. 

Harris Osserman: So, if people… if you imagine it like a… I don’t know, like a dating app where you can only look at a certain number profiles a day or only apply to a certain number of jobs a day, then if you’re the candidate, you’re only in applying to the jobs that you think you have the best opportunity of getting. And that way, you’re not going to be able to apply to… I mean, and indeed I’ve easily applied to over 100 jobs in like 10 minutes. So, that’s not helping anyone. 

And if you could select which jobs you are applying to, then the employer doesn’t need to have as much automation and can evaluate the people then. But you can push back on that. 

Bryan Uribe: I think that’s awesome and I think it’s great. I think the only challenge you open yourself up to is what happens when they say, “Well, Talk Hiring is only letting me be 10 a day. I’m going to go to Indeed and I’m going to splash pick a hundred.” Right? 

Harris Osserman: Sure. Thank you. {crosstalk 42:21 – 23}.

Daniel Guiney: You can just outclass them, you know, this can’t just be a hiring class. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. So, I’m not doing this to like be a pest, but these are like the actual business questions. Like it was in your shoes, {indistinct 42:33}, how do I build the mall sufficiently big enough around me where you go to Indeed. 

And I think the key behind what you’re doing is if the activity of applicants. If you could say, “We’re 32 percent accurate on an applicant and it takes an applicant on average 25 applications versus the kid on Indeed right now just smashing that “Apply Now” button.” And nothing against Indeed; right? 

Daniel Guiney: Dude, when I was many moons ago looking for a job, I remember going on it’s… like I wanted to be an executive assistant. So, I went on fucking Craigslist, dude, and I applied to every executive assistant posting every day for like… 

Bryan Uribe: Have you ever posted a job on Craigslist? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, you get so many.

Daniel Guiney: You need a new email address. 

Bryan Uribe: I know, Dude. So, I posted one for you for an administrative assistant. And I said in it, on the bottom, I said, “I need your greeting to be in Spanish because we need somebody that is bilingual.” I love to hire you Mr. 12 years of experience, you don’t speak Spanish. So, you won’t be able to deal with the 60 to 70 percent customer base that only speaks Spanish. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: I got 80-something e-mails. I’m like, “Fucking. Come on man. Really?” 

Daniel Guiney: And none of them are in Spanish. 

Bryan Uribe: I got like 10. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Who read the fucking… 

Bryan Uribe: That’s like a 12 percent, bro. Like that’s… 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, it’s really bad. 

Daniel Guiney: I would’ve gone down if you had more salmon submission. Like it wasn’t going to get better. 

Bryan Uribe: No, it wasn’t. 

Harris Osserman: No, the stats on it like… yeah, I wish I remember then but I think it’s like two percent of people who apply to a job get an interview on Indeed or something like that. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay. 

Bryan Uribe: Well, again it’s the whole human resource management platform that it’s just like it has all the data behind it where you just have to hit a couple of real keywords. 

Harris Osserman: Right. And the thing is…

Bryan Uribe: There’s a whole science behind applying to a job where like if you say… the specific words that you use are better for your specific kinds of industry. So, the more you use those words on your résumé, but you just can’t repeat the words; it’s weird. 

Harris Osserman: But then people have like 20 different résumés because each job that they’re applying to, they think that they need to have different words in it and it just takes so much time and you’re still probably not going to get an interview anyway because ATS is going to filter you out. 

And as an engineer applying for the startup jobs, when I was in college and then after my first job, most of the time I would send an email in and then it was a human on the other side. Probably because it’s like startups don’t have… 

Bryan Uribe: They don’t have the infrastructure.

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I {crosstalk 45:03 – 04}. But it’s great being talked to by a human and it’s so sad how many people can. 

Daniel Guiney: So, hit us with another challenge you may be facing. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. Another challenge… So, there are so many Workforce Development Organization. It’s a truly unbelievable number. Every day, I find out more in just New York City. And it’s hard to know which ones I should work with; like which ones I should approach. 

Daniel Guiney: What kind of matrix is come out of those. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. Like are they large enough for me to spend my time working with them? Are they can it be good communicators? Because in a pilot program I need to be able to talk to them a lot. What kind of programs do they have? Do they have cohorts today? Like, I don’t know. There are lots of different questions that I can ask them. 

Daniel Guiney: So much to ask me there. A question for you there would be… and answer maybe no. Do you have any process in place right now for them to find you and pre-qualify themselves as opposed to you trying to find them and pre-qualify them? 

Harris Osserman: Not. 

Daniel Guiney: Not. 

Harris Osserman: But it’s a good question. 

Daniel Guiney: Right? It’s Something to think about. Because you only have so many hours and days and you have already done a bunch. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s only three of you guys and it’s only like one in three quarters.

Harris Osserman: It’s just me doing. 

Harris Osserman: It’s one in three quarters because you got one guy still in Lamb, the other kid’s a fucking intern. 

Daniel Guiney: You can’t even have them do too much. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Interns got to do specific tasks but… 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: That would be something maybe to approach. Just take a step back, pause for a minute. It’s something I’d have a lot of challenge doing, but Bryan Uribe has encouraged me to do is stop working for a fucking {indistinct 46:47}. 

Bryan Uribe: Hell, yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: And like just say, you know what’s like the big domino I can knock down that’s going to trigger a chain reaction of them soaring to reach out to me. So, maybe that’s pretty content.

Bryan Uribe: So, what’s sexy to them? 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, right. We’re creating some kind of content piece that’s appealing to them; like what are these people looking for online to enhance their abilities? I don’t have an answer to that question. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Maybe you have something ahead. But what’s something you could give them as a free resource that would draw them to your other powerful free resource. Put them through like a prequalify question and have them screen themselves. Like, make them sell themselves to you. 

Harris Osserman: I’ve never thought about that. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, I think. Yeah, dude. Like the biggest thing to is like you run your own business, we run our businesses, we have the liberty to go tell somebody to pound the pavement. I don’t want to work with you. 

Daniel Guiney: And you should do that. 

Bryan Uribe: I was talking to a consulting client yesterday and we were at a point where we were like, if this guy complicates this, I’m going to tell him, “Listen, our resources are better spent on other task and projects. There’s nothing against you. We think you’re amazing. We just don’t… like you don’t even know what you want to do, guy. And we could fix everything for you, but you don’t even know what you need us to fix. We’re telling you what the problem is, but what are we doing here Mr. Man?” 

Daniel Guiney: You’re got to be able to qualify success. 

Bryan Uribe: What does success look like?

Daniel Guiney: {crosstalk 48:04} organization like this. If they can’t qualify for you what success is going to look like by utilizing your program, you will never have a successful experience. 

Harris Osserman: All right. 

Daniel Guiney: Because you’re trying to hit a moving mark and it’s impossible. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s right. 

Daniel Guiney: It’s going to end up having a sour relation. Whereas if there are some… it could even be the most basic thing in the world that’s allowing them to pre-qualify for themselves what they want out of this and sell themselves on it. 

Harris Osserman: It can’t even just be like a set of questions that I know that I ask in my intro call. 

Daniel Guiney: Exactly. And cut that out of the whole process and like that just be done. 

Bryan Uribe: Or like once your call is done and they want to move forward, now you need to qualify them truly or even before you talk to them. Like honestly, bro like… 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, even before. 

Bryan Uribe: You could talk to 100 people that are not qualified and maybe get 10. And out of those 10, only three of them are like dialed in. That’s bad. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: Like I used to do that. We used to have national telemarketing Day at the first company I worked for. And I legit, we would make… 

Daniel Guiney: National telemarketing… 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s like the worst holiday ever. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. It was the first Wednesday of every month. I’m competitive, you know this. I’m super competitive. So, I’m like… 

Daniel Guiney: Was this even an annual day? This is like every month.

Bryan Uribe: It was every month, dude. And I’d kick ass. And you know what would happen? They would buy his pizza and you’d be in the office every day or maybe was a quarter. I think was every month though. I don’t remember. But it was nuts. 

Yeah. So, you’d hop on the phone and the person that made the most calls would get a prize. The person that set up the most appointments would get another prize. The person that would set up most appointments with follow up opportunities or newly created opportunities by talking to someone who would get a prize. 

You could legit be on the phone for 80… I remember one time I won, I made 82 calls in a day. I was 22 years old. I didn’t give a shit. I was just trying to get paid. 

Harris Osserman: You’re almost bloody tired with all that. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. It was wild. I had a Bluetooth headset. So, as you freak it. But still right? Like even if you look at that, it’s like I would make 78 calls, I think the most effective I did on one of those days was like eight appointments that were real opportunity-based appointments. It’s not like, “Hey, I’m going to stop by and just see how things would go.” It was like, “What’s up man. I want to follow up on this proposal or create a new opportunity.” 

Versus now, I don’t talk to you unless if I know that this makes sense. And this first talk is really to understand if it does make sense because I believe it makes sense, but how does it make sense? Are you sure it makes sense? Now, let’s set your expectations. 

One of the other things I kind of wanted to say earlier, what Daniel Guiney was talking was like have you ever… I know we all have probably had this… Have you had a situation where your partner was upset about something and you didn’t know why they were upset? And now you’re trying to fix everything into everything and… 

Daniel Guiney: Like scattershot like very…

Bryan Uribe: It is like, “Wait, what happened, dude? Like did I forget our anniversary? Like was something important? What is it?” And it might just be, “You didn’t bring me dark chocolate.” and it just like blew up out of proportion. Have you ever had something like it? And it might not be dark chocolate, but have you ever had to a situation like that? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, where I have to guess why someone doesn’t like me anymore or something like that? 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. Hundred percent. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s why we’re qualifying success.

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: So, that was poor expectations were set. You’re just going into it expecting things to work out because you’re fuckin Bryan Uribe or Daniel Guiney or Harris Osserman; right? Like sometimes it’s just that. So, that’s what inevitably ends up happening with clients when you don’t set the expectations. 

Then you get somebody on the pilot and now you’re overworking to overcompensate when it just was never a good fit or they just don’t have an understanding of what you do. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. I would say, one thing that I continue to… I’m getting better at different qualifications, but one thing that’s so hard to know is if they’re going to be just good at business hygiene. Like do they keep it a good calendar? Do they call you when they say they’re going to call you? Can they keep their phone charged to communicate with you? Do they like to use e-mail? Like, I don’t know. There have been a surprising number of people where that has been a challenge. I have no idea how that… 

Bryan Uribe: Can I tell you something? Just ask them. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, dude. One to seven. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: How good are you at your fucking calendar? And if they put a three, don’t fucking call them. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I should just ask them though. That’s {crosstalk 52:44}. 

Bryan Uribe: One hundred percent. Listen, for us to find out… and I would do it in front of everyone. “For us to find success in this pilot, are you willing to do this?” “Yes.” “How good are you at this?” 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: Okay, great. “Alright, see this. Can you commit to this?” Because now you’re making them commit to it. 

Daniel Guiney: They’re selling themselves on why I’m going to do it. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. And if it’s like, “I can’t commit to that. Alright, if something does occur, can I like piggyback this off on somebody else in this room? And then it’s like, “Oh, yeah. You can talk to X Y Z person because she’s great.” “Alright, cool. Well, guess what? Every calendar {indistinct 53:23} has both of them on it now.”

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: ”And if they also suck, then I don’t know if this is a good fit, guys. I need you guys to be truly focused on this.” 

And guess what, bro? It may be a fucking company that has 100 thousand people in their workforce development program that you may need to tell them that this isn’t a good fit because it’s only going to be bad for you. 

And guess what? If they have a bad one and they feel like it was bad and you were inadequate because you weren’t holding their hand the entire way and rather we’re all adults here. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I’m scared of that. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, if that happens, guess what’s going to happen? They’re going to go ahead and tell everybody else that you suck. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: Meanwhile, it was just them. 

Harris Osserman: Right.

Bryan Uribe: That happens so often. 

Harris Osserman: So, that more important to qualify it upfront.

Daniel Guiney: You got to qualify it upfront. 

Daniel Guiney: It’s a bad experience. Yeah, right. They’re not going to blame themselves. 

Bryan Uribe: And explicitly stating expectations. 

Daniel Guiney: Even though it’s their fault. 

Bryan Uribe: Explicitly state expectations. And then the other thing that you said earlier. I feel like there have been quite some times we got from the question. It was frequently asked questions will also be good. 

Harris Osserman: Oh, right. 

Daniel Guiney: FAQ. 

Bryan Uribe: Here’s a one-page FAQ or just a website. “Hey, go check the website out there.” 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. For the teacher’s side. 

Bryan Uribe: For everybody. 

Harris Osserman: Oh, for everyone.

Bryan Uribe: Like again, I think the statement earlier was sometimes they may not know what you do; a clear explanation? Hey, so there’s a FAQ you over here for you. And for teachers, there’s an FAQ for you over here and students you got one too? There’s an FAQ for you guys too. And guess what? You don’t like reading, I’ve got a video for you. How does that sound?

Daniel Guiney: Right. And it’s an infographic for you visual folks that just can’t read and don’t like to watch videos. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. Honestly, for what you’re doing and the kind of sales… I wouldn’t call it sales because there’s revenue generated… 

Harris Osserman: But like a partnership.

Daniel Guiney: It is going to be a revenue-generating pipeline. Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: For your type of environment, the key thing is you got to kind of walk these you got to not to be insensitive to anybody, but you got to kind of idiotproof it. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: You got to make a so simple where it’s like, “Hey.” 

S2Tell me someone walks in and picks it up tomorrow. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Especially in this kind of nonprofit organization, there’s a lot of turnovers. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: Right. If it’s reliant on one person being there, a change of the guard could corrupt the entire relationship. So, it needs to be something that somebody could walk in to pick up. 

Now, just to stress you back on pre-qualifying people. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: You said you’re creating the video. 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: Very cool right. That’s outstanding. That’s going to help them understand what to do. How are you going to get people to the video? Because you don’t want it just to be where you’re already having… I would challenge you to create some content pieces, geared towards these organizations you’re targeting, surrounding questions on like how is X Y Z doing? Why or how is X enhancing their ability to Z or how are job seekers finding jobs? Like, start hitting some of those question points and then give them the solution at the end. 

“Because they’re all best practices are utilizing our service. And this is why you should get involved” and then have them start reaching out to you and to check that. 

Bryan Uribe: Get some case studies and testimonials too, man. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, there is a lot like logos, we could start getting… 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, if you have one organization that saw a 25 percent effectively increase without adding any additional work to their workforce. “So, hey. This is how X Y Z non-profit saw a 25 percent increase in hiring of their workforce development program; without spending any money and without having to hire any more people and it was less work. 

That as a title, I mean, I have to be sexy than that. But like I said, as a general premise, {crosstalk 57:00}.

Harris Osserman: So, right now, we’re working on… 

Bryan Uribe: I don’t it then I click it. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: I just want to know. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: What do they do? 

Harris Osserman: Well, we are right now just started this week, we’re studying where we can measure if statistically, significant improvement happened. 

Daniel Guiney: It could be small. It doesn’t have to be big. It’s free; right? This is something you can improve without spending any capital. 

Harris Osserman: Right. Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Have fun and then you’re going to get them in your pipeline. But you know. That’s awesome.

Harris Osserman: I forgot. There was something else that I wanted to say, but I forgot. Oh, yeah. So, the video, it’s going to live on the homepage; talkhiring.com

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: But we’d also have, thanks to Bryan Uribe’s advice, a talkhiring.com/careercoach page. 

Daniel Guiney: Hey.

Harris Osserman: And that is going to have the video at the top, it’s going to say, Like, “What do I need to know? What should I tell a student? 

Daniel Guiney: Giving that this is a resource to a career coach right, all day. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah and then a link right there, so that they can see what their custom domain is, where their dashboards because we have an authentication system and now they can log in and see their dashboard. 

Harris Osserman: He had that. That should help a lot. 

Daniel Guiney: Hell, yeah. We got a market to share out of this for you. 

Daniel Guiney: Awesome. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s awesome, dude. That’s all we do, man. Content. 

Harris Osserman: Nice ad. 

Bryan Uribe: So, yeah, with that being said… 

Daniel Guiney: Can I jump into an off-topic question? 

Bryan Uribe: Wait before you go. This is almost. This is quick. The other thing I would say is as you create all this content, added to your webpage, continue to create these different kinds of experiences. You should be using that as a sales funnel; hardcore. 

Do you want to go look at this? Yeah. This looks good to you? Yeah. Sign up. Okay. More text. Sign up. 

Daniel Guiney: Get all the emails.

Bryan Uribe: More text. Sign up and then take them through that automated workflow of qualifying the customer. It could be a type form survey. It could be a Survey Monkey survey. It could be a Millterm survey, whatever you want to use. But just get them in there and start getting their data and let them talk themselves out of it. 

Would you like to do a pilot? It takes about three hours of onboarding and it’s about an hourly commitment every week, for the first month, and then passed that, it’s an hourly commitment every other week or 30-minute commitment every other week. Do you commit to doing this to see these kinds of results? 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, and that would work. 

Bryan Uribe: Well, no. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s yay or nay. 

Harris Osserman: And once I have the career coach page, the study out, and it’s free; it’s pretty compelling. Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: Why wouldn’t you? 

Harris Osserman: Right. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s the best guarantee. It’s free. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. They love that. 

Bryan Uribe: You could put with a money-back guarantee. But it’s free. I know. 

Harris Osserman: I like that. 

Daniel Guiney: So, my off-topic questions; just to keep it a little bit. You said something really interesting in the beginning. You said you’re an entrepreneur and you’ve had a couple of failed business. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Which I think is a powerful thing. I had a couple of failed businesses too. 

Bryan Uribe: Me too.

Daniel Guiney: Like when you’re doing it, if you’re serious about being an entrepreneur, like get ready to fail, man. Like I don’t think you’re going to come out of the gate swinging like Mark Zuckerberg. You just hit a Facebook up gates. That’s not how this generally works. And even he, I’m sure he had failed shit.

Bryan Uribe: I heard that his dad failed. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Get out there Mark Zuckerberg robot. Yeah, that’s all we can talk about though. I would love to hear a couple of things. 

Bryan Uribe: I don’t feel that way, Mark. Don’t throttle my Facebook ads account, man. 

Daniel Guiney: Oh, you got one more {indistinct 01:00:39}. But I would be interested to hear about it. And maybe you don’t have anything immediately to talk about. But a couple of things you might have picked up or learned during some of those failed projects that you’re now applying to a successful project and like how that evolution looked. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, they’re a lot. So, the first company… I mean, it wasn’t a company. We never incorporated it, but it generated revenue. And it was… 

Daniel Guiney: Arrest this man right here. 

Harris Osserman: It is a Lego Mindstorms after afterschool activity. So, we’d work with local elementary schools in New Jersey, hired some kids in my high school, we go around teaching kids basic engineering concepts through Legos. 

Daniel Guiney: Very cool. 

Harris Osserman: And yeah, I learned so much about… there was so much logistical stuff like we had to get people to the right places, make sure the Legos where there, make sure that the teachers knew all the lesson plans, learned about… I mean there’s a lot of challenging classes; third to fifth graders where they just wanted to build catapults and just like shoot stuff out. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s sick though, man. I mean, I want to do that too, bro.

Harris Osserman: Yeah, it was fun but tough to manage. And then in college, I built… this weekend is my co-founder’s wedding for my second business, which is Qual Cab. And that was a taxi sharing and taxi booking service. 

Harris Osserman: So, Uber Pool did not exist at that point and we partnered with a local taxi company. Did a revenue share, booked like 550-ish rides, which I was pretty happy with. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: And yeah, that was my first company. So, I learned about what incorporation means, what are shares… 

Bryan Uribe: Taxes. 

Harris Osserman: Taxes. I learned about what vesting means, learned about how to structure the partnership agreement, working with an entity. We launched it during finals week because that’s when a lot of people want to take cabs to go home. 

So, I’ll go to the airport. And so, I was studying for my tests and fixing bugs all the time, which was terrible. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, terrible life.

Harris Osserman: Yeah. And then another company was kind of like Turbo Tax for political campaign compliance. 

Daniel Guiney: I like that. 

Harris Osserman: We called it Campaign Compass and we worked with local government. Well, we never actually. We built an MVP product. The city of Berkeley in California was going to pilot it, but we realized from looking at our competitors, that the market was probably not large enough. It was going to take a super long time for us to get enough contracts for us to even evaluate. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s super important that you were able to identify that. I mean, half of launching your business is identifying the landscape you’re coming into. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah, I was the youngest person at this California Conference for (I’ve forgotten what it was) something and Elected Officials and it was just a vendor event. So, we wanted to get a table, but it was way too expensive. 

Bryan Uribe: County executives?

Harris Osserman: Yeah, something like that. And yeah, the tables were way too expensive, but I talked to all of the relevant competitors and they were all like, “Okay businesses” but no one was doing that well. Then they were just talking about… like I knew how many employees they had, it wasn’t that many, they were telling me about their sales process. Sure they were maybe trying to scare me, but… 

Daniel Guiney: Do you see the despair in their eyes? 

Harris Osserman: It was pretty. Yeah, like you’re going to have to just have a lot of dinners with government officials to get them into it.

Bryan Uribe: You’d need global affairs. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. It’s just so that we called that off. 

Daniel Guiney: Very cool, man.

Harris Osserman: It’s the others; there’s so many in it. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s what it’s all about. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah.

Daniel Guiney: You got to fail early, fail often. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s till you figure out how it works. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah.

Daniel Guiney: Garry Vee just put out talking about this yesterday and he’s always talked about that shit, but you’ve got to be ready to fail if you want to be successful. People are so afraid to fail, they don’t put out an MVP (Minimum Viable Product). They don’t put out their first podcast, they don’t put out their first email blast, they don’t put out their first anything. They just don’t do it because they don’t want it to fail. But you’ve got to fail. 

Bryan Uribe: When is that email blast coming out, Daniel Guiney? 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: Scary ass. {crosstalk 03:04}

Harris Osserman: Oh, man. 

Bryan Uribe: You see, we keep each other accountable too here on Konsole. I think that’s a hundred percent right though. Like when I started my first couple of businesses, revenue-generating, made a profit. Some of them never made any like actual real profit when you look at the time that you contributed to it. But yeah, dude, I started to realize or I now know all the reasons why it didn’t take off how I believed it could have taken off. 

And sometimes it’s just not having the right expectations. We’re still going back to expectations. It’s setting the correct expectations and understanding which inputs are going to generally which outputs. 

I think knowing your business and we’ve had deeper conversations than just this one, I think you have a phenomenal business model. I think you have a phenomenal business and opportunity. I think that if you build this out and you wanted to exit, you could exit for nine figures. 

Daniel Guiney: Secure the bag. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, I think you could probably get out for nine figures. You just got to build it the right way. A lot of that is just the business structure and making sure that Indeed and Monster and all the other companies never watch this podcast. So, we’d probably whitelist them. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: But no, I think it’s phenomenal. I think the only other thing that it’s something that we always talk about too is knowing when to charge a customer and I think that you’re at that cusp. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: And I think you could charge him right now, but I also understand that you do have to validate your product a little bit more. And then the final thing, dude, is if you need it and it’s going to help you accelerate, go get some funding. 

What’s was interesting to you is that you have three engineers. So, your biggest budget isn’t anything. Your biggest budget is you guys and you’ll last for as long as you guys are willing to eat ramen noodles. You don’t have big marketing spend, you’re not paying for {crosstalk 05:00} and advertising or any of that stuff. So, you could in theory truly build your product, build an entire marketplace with all of its users because your user base in your inventory is the people that are looking for jobs. And go tell all these like for-profit organizations with a thousand openings, “Hey, guys. You want to tap into a hundred thousand people?” 

Harris Osserman: Correct. Yeah 

Bryan Uribe: And then it’s like, “Hey, here it is.” 

Daniel Guiney: You can even use API and pull the job listings. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. But then I could do that to like… because they’re not like going to… then like I’ll have to email the employer and be like, “I have all these people. They want to apply for your job. But I know that you’re not looking at my thing.” I could do something. Some of these places have done that well. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. Dude, you have so many opportunities to just explore this. Especially since you’ve already seen some form of success. I just think it’s you got to refine the process at this point. If you’re not going to go out and monetize, you’re going to focus on refining what you’re MVP is in your current product. You need to refine like crazy and stop wasting your time on these companies that aren’t dedicating time to you. 

Harris Osserman: Right, exactly. 

Bryan Uribe: And listen, I would also even say for the ones that are being more difficult, just ask, “Is this a priority for you. I just want to reset expectations because the kind of engagement I’m getting out of you right now isn’t what we discussed and it’s not what’s expected of a positive pilot.” 

Harris Osserman: But I cannot, even if they say yes, like I can still shut down the pilot. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah.

Daniel Guiney: Oh, yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: If they say yes. 

Daniel Guiney: You should do it. Do one. Just shut one down. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Just because you can. 

Harris Osserman: I’ve been trying for one of them. 

Daniel Guiney: Try, man. Shut that down tomorrow; just because you want to.

Bryan Uribe: Shut it down right now. 

Daniel Guiney: After this, some of them would be like {indistinct 06:46 – 48} working out. Just do it just so it gets out of the way. You got to shut it down first.

Bryan Uribe: I would also say like reach out and say, “Hey, guys listen. I just want to make sure like reset expectations. Is it still a priority?” They say, “Yeah, it is.” And they just have to be candid with them like, “Okay. Well, you say this is an expectation, but this, this, this, this and this. So, we need to reanalyze this entire thing and go back to the drawing board because right now, we’re not finding success here.” 

Like we don’t do this to lose. You don’t go into business to lose. You don’t go into being an entrepreneur to lose. If you wanted to do that, you could just go get a job. And then you’d never have to lose or just go play like, I don’t know, go play intramural with NBA players if you want to lose. 

Like you go into this to win. We are creatures of nature that like positive feedback. So, we got to drive towards like, “Listen, this is a worker, guys. Get out of here.”

Daniel Guiney: And you would never see someone shape up faster than when you try and take some shit away from them they have. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: If you say, If you don’t shape this up, I’m taking this away” and they like it or even they think they like it, they’re going to use it, they’re going to shape up. 

Bryan Uribe: If they don’t have it and they haven’t even tried it, they’d be like, “No, wait. I want it.” 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: ”I have three more weeks.” “I don’t care. It’s my company, dude.” 

Harris Osserman: That’s exactly what happened when I tried to transfer my pilots. Yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: Yes, you don’t hesitate do that shit. Pull that trigger. 

Bryan Uribe: You have to pump it, man. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah. I’m too nice. 

Daniel Guiney: You’ve got to do it.

Bryan Uribe: Do you have any contractual obligations to them? 

Harris Osserman: I mean, we have a signed MoU, but yeah, it’s still they’re not upholding their side. That’s it. 

Bryan Uribe: I would just turn it down and say, “Hey, guys. I like to work with you guys in the future, but the contract’s void. You haven’t met these expectations. I would like to revisit this with you at a later date when you can allocate more resources to it.” 

Harris Osserman: Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: That’s a nice way of saying, “Hey, dude. Go pound pavement.” I want to say something else, but I’m not going to say it.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, you need cash for it, bro. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah? 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Sounds like… 

Bryan Uribe: Kick rocks, dude. You know, whatever. So, I mean, with that being said… 

Daniel Guiney: Let’s bring this full circle. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. 

Harris Osserman: Do you have any other questions? 

Daniel Guiney: I love the idea. I can’t wait to see what kind of success you’re going to find. I think this is a takeoff and I think we’re going to see a lot of people doing voice interviews in the next couple of years. 

Bryan Uribe: Absolutely. So, yeah, let’s bring it back around. So, for the people out there, remind us; who are you, what do you do and why should they care? 

Harris Osserman: So, yeah, we’re Talk Hiring, building this voice-based hiring platform. And people seek care because there are so many people who could get better jobs, but aren’t. There so many employers who want to find candidates and say that finding great candidates is one of their biggest problems, but they can’t find them. And there’s so much waste in the process of people generating all these résumés, spending all his time applying to jobs, people helping people with their résumés, cover letters; the whole thing. And I think helping people get jobs is for me, one most rewarding thing I’ve ever done. 

Daniel Guiney: Help people get better jobs for them. 

Harris Osserman: Right. Helping them find a great job. And there are also a lot of, like if you go to a job board, it’s all just happy faces, people smiling, shaking hands, whatever. 

But there are a lot of emotional challenges when you don’t have a job because especially if you don’t have a lot in savings like it’s you’re strapped right now, you’re sending off this résumé constantly, you have no idea like if it’s you or if it’s the employer, you have lack of confidence. 

So, from when I was talking about the splash page that I made, there were a few people who because they knew what phone number to call to then get to me, they kept calling me and just talking. I was basically like a psychologist. So, they were telling me about their life challenges. I am not a psychologist, but they just wanted someone who could listen to them. And I think that voice helps you do that and make it more human. So, I’m pretty excited. 

Bryan Uribe: Oh, dude, I’ve had that happen with Yofii. 

Harris Osserman: Yeah.

Bryan Uribe: Every time I send an e-mail blast, I’ll get somebody to e-mail me back about how they’re in debt. They want to get out of this.

Harris Osserman: Yeah. 

Bryan Uribe: When you’re solving those kinds of massive problems that are real to people, that’s what you’ll get. And that’s how you know that you’re on the right path. So, I mean, with that being said, it was an absolute pleasure, man. 

Harris Osserman: This was great.

Daniel Guiney: You’re phenomenal. Thanks for coming on.

Harris Osserman: Yeah, thank you. 

Bryan Uribe: So, Bryan Uribe here with Konsole. 

Daniel Guiney: And Daniel Guiney here with Konsole. That’s a wrap. 

Bryan Uribe: Signing off. 

Harris Osserman: Thank you.

Daniel Guiney: Signing off.

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