S1E6: Matthew Wells

In this episode of The Konsole Podcast, we interview Matthew Wells, the Founder of Scale Motorsport and Proformance Sports. Matthew is an industrial engineer who has built an impressive scale car business and is now pursuing a new venture with Proformance Sports. Join us as we talk through marketing, launch, and operational strategy.

Music Credits: Don’t Stop by YFLY

Listen: https://ffm.to/yfly

Buy from Scale Motorsport: https://scalemotorsport.com/

Learn More About Proformance Sports: https://www.proformancesports.net/


Bryan Uribe: Hey everybody, nice to see you again, Bryan Uribe here.

Daniel Guiney: And Daniel Guiney. We’re here for another episode or edition of Console Consulting.

Bryan Uribe: And today we have?

Matthew Wells: Matthew Wells from performance, sports and scale motorsport.

Bryan Uribe: Awesome. So Matthew, tell us what you do.

Matthew Wells: I’m an industrial designer in my whole career, studied industrial design in college and I picked industrial design because it allowed me to participate both from a design and engineering position in a lot of different industries from architecture to interiors, sporting goods, model, hobby industry and we’re now spending a lot of time and energy-related to medical devices.

Bryan Uribe: Sweet. So sweet. So how did you get into all of this, right? Like what was the journey to get you into engineering?

Matthew Wells: Sure. Well, studying industrial design in college, it laid the foundation for the rest of my career. As I mentioned, they train you to think rather globally when it comes to designing products and how to solve problems. I think that the main feature about, the main benefit of studying discipline like industrial design is that it teaches us how to solve problems. And if you’re into creating new products, you have to identify what the problem is right up front and then spend your time solving that problem and you’re trained to think a certain way, to solve that problem. So that’s my biggest joy in life is solving product design problems.

Bryan Uribe: Absolutely.

Daniel Guiney: Very quickly just for everybody in the audience who might not be familiar with space at all, could you give just a quick, like, one-on-one breakdown of what industrial design is versus another field.

Matthew Wells: Sure. For instance, when I was in high school, I thought I was going to study architecture and when I got to college and I saw what architecture was really, I found it too confining. In other words, the problems that and the way they taught you to think and the problems that you had to solve.

Bryan Uribe: No offense to the architects.

Matthew Wells: I was just going to say that. 

Daniel Guiney: Next to defend yourself. 

Matthew Wells: I think maybe it was my ADD that prevented me from being an architect but what I liked about industrial design is that we would have one class and spent time designing a sports-related product or another time, perhaps designing toys for children, another product perhaps designing, chairs or desks for offices, industrial design or at least the education of it laid a really good, solid groundwork for thinking globally about solving problems. Oh that I liked quite a bit, I didn’t want to get focused in one particular area. So I’ve spent my whole career doing that, and that’s what I find exciting about it, that’s what I like about it.

Bryan Uribe: Awesome. Yeah. I think that’s something so critical to a lot of people don’t understand how some of these careers even operate like when you’re growing up it’s like, yeah, go be an architect and make a lot of money. And then it’s like you get into and it’s like, oh, this isn’t what I want. And I relate to from when I got into my bachelor’s, it was computer science and I was applying to computer engineering classes and when I went to meet some of the professors, I’m like ah I don’t even know how to do this.

Matthew Wells: Exactly right, I had the same experience.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. And then when it was like, okay, computer science, interesting, this is software and then once I got into doing them like, ah, I don’t want to do that either. And then I inevitably ended up in software but I just took a different path. And having that understanding I think is helpful for our audience because I have my godbrother my nephew, my little cousin, he loves designing cars and I tried to like tell his mom like, you should get this little kid into like a 3D design class or something or whatever. No, he’s going to be a lawyer I’m like, dude, some designers make more money than lawyers and they had better luck.

Matthew Wells: He wants to get into studying industrial design, that’s where you start, your automotive.

Bryan Uribe: Yes. It’s still interesting and I feel like a lot of people don’t have enough background on some of these careers that you get.

Matthew Wells: That’s true. Where does he live?

Bryan Uribe: Pennsylvania.

Matthew Wells: So, okay, well there, there’s a Carnegie Mellon boy, you can’t find a better design engine, one of the top-end design engineering schools in the country

Daniel Guiney: Tigger, you mentioned you’d like this because of the global aspect of what it allows you to do and you have a lot of diversity, you’re able to work with sporting equipment and medical equipment, model replicas, and design. Why do you do this though? Can we take a global picture? Like the y was there like a young Matthew that was [inaudible 00:08:54] the global why?

Matthew Wells: The global why is pretty simple. Well there are two things;

           One, I love seeing the future and in a hands-on, you know, how that table or desk may function or how it has to function 10 or 12, 15 years from now, five years from now. I’m very good at seeing diverging, disciplines or activities in a variety of different marketplaces and watching those activities develop and seeing how they can eventually come together. And it’s being able to recognize maybe what’s happening in the world of coffee beans and the world of brewing or the world of distribution and seeing how they may come together to create something. The area that we’re spending a lot of time in now has to do with the integration of a 3D print and sensor technology and that came about as a result of seeing several activities in a variety of industries that eventually I see coming together that could help form a whole new type of product genre. 

Daniel Guiney: If we find a lot of synergies there, pulling together to different organizations and ideas and just seeing that future is you.

Matthew Wells: It’s great. It really, so that’s mine why.

Bryan Uribe: I love tech Matthew. I hate that every podcast he uses the word synergy. It’s my legacy, I cry every time he says it, but he like looked at me and he said it smile and I’m like, dude, come on man.

Daniel Guiney: It’s the best word, it’s what you’re doing. You’re finding ways to take two completely diverse industries or compatible industries that aren’t working together yet and make something better at.

Matthew Wells: Seeing what, to see where they can actually, when they come together they compliment each other when something comes out of…

Bryan Uribe: Innocent augments or results, it’s absolutely, yeah.

Daniel Guiney: If you end up the synergy fan, I’m winning dude. More people like it.

Matthew Wells: So that’s my why, I love seeing the future, I look, that’s pretty much how I view the world everything I look at and then seeing what happens with a variety of different industries, studying different industries and watching how certain things are coming together out or how I see them, how they could come together.

Bryan Uribe: Outstanding.

Matthew Wells: So those are my two why’s.

Bryan Uribe: So for all of your youth out there or even people looking for the transition if you want to get involved in the future?

Matthew Wells: Yeah. I mean, when I was back in college 40 years ago, we were designing electric cars back then. This is not new and the electric car is not new in fact, the first automobile was an electric car. So yeah, it’s great, I remember I was living in Seattle in the late eighties, mid-eighties well all through the 80s and I remember I had a small design firm there and I remember walking down the street one day and I saw this guy talking to himself, carrying what looked like a shoebox glued to his ear. You know, it was one of the very first phones.

Bryan Uribe: Did you call the police?

Matthew Wells: I thought the guy was nuts, you’re right but I realized very early on that shoebox would not stay that size for very long and within, I think two or three years after I first saw that Motorola came out with the first flip phone. Do you remember seeing that? Yeah. Now those flip phones cost over a thousand dollars you know, that was enormous.

Bryan Uribe: The car phones were like a couple of thousand, right?

Matthew Wells: Oh yeah. Oh, the ones that were wired in. That’s why those are my whys and I can’t stop seeing the future. I mean, I just see all the time looking for stuff, I see a synergy of things coming together. And I do that for a lot of things. I do it not only from hard products, but I do it in fact, thinking about fashion and I find that quite entertaining. And my wife is in product development as well, although she’s a completely different industry, so her industry is a lot more regulated than mine. So we do share a fair amount of sensitivities to we both spend our time doing, so that’s great.

Daniel Guiney: That sounds awesome and it also sounds beautiful. I feel like we as a people have kind of gotten away from dreaming and seeing what’s coming next and technology is like, it’s advancing and it’s innovations happening at an accelerated pace and it feels like it’s not stopping, it’s just increasing. But then there are other areas where it’s like, well, we don’t see it where’s the end-use for us and it feels like it’s much more compartmentalized now where I feel like back in the 80s and me around for the 80s, but at least what I’ve seen in history and seventies and sixties, everybody was a dreamer. Everybody was out there to go live the American dream, build the next great company, build the next board or whatever it is that we want. And now you see that a lot within the tech community, but I don’t feel that it’s as prevalent amongst the populous. I’d probably call that maybe 5% of the US populace is actually like out there striving to build something new and even 5% may be a long shot.

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. That’s a very good observation and it could bring up a subject that we probably want to steer away from. I think the government and the politicians have, um, a lot of responsibility for laying the groundwork for that, in the 60s, we had a very forward-thinking very advanced, we just advanced thinking people, you may or may have liked them, may have not liked them, but they did help create an environment that encouraged people to think about the future, we don’t do that now.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, I agree. I agree, 100%. I feel like we’re at a point right now where there’s not enough. It Polish they going in the 50s, in the 60s, the tech was still new enough where most people could kind of understand it but who we have in a lot of these elected offices, they don’t understand the basics of a lot of this stuff like artificial intelligence, what is that? Like, have like a regular layperson that doesn’t work in Tech explained to you artificial intelligence is, and you’ll see how off they are, thinking in Sky Net and is it possible this Sky Net can happen a hundred percent? I believe it could happen. 

Bryan Uribe: And if it does remember us favorably.

Daniel Guiney: Mr. AI, we love you guys, right? But yeah, I feel like there’s this massive disconnect and a lot of it’s… I won’t get too political here, but I feel like there is a lot of self-serving within the government present day and I think that it has greatly impacted innovation inside with innovation. Although we are still accelerating fashion than we ever had but then at the same time we also have more money than we’ve ever had in the marketplace so the government could do whatever they want. If I want to go build AI, I’m going to go raise $50 million and go build it.

Bryan Uribe: There’s a lot of grassroots support also for like stem initiatives and getting kids involved with the science and the tech and bringing them up but you know, you’re spot on in saying that it’s not, it shouldn’t be a top-down approach where they’re saying, let’s go to Mars and push it, but in a strategic approach, not saying like, let’s skip the move and all that. Let’s seriously look at it and encourage kids to be visionary and look at the future and say [Inaudible 00:17:50] towards the table. I remember the last time somebody reinvented the table and it’s pretty much the same thing, how can we make that better? Maybe that is with the 3D printing of the innovation.

Matthew Wells: Well there is a whole genre of office tables now that, [inaudible 00:18:08] the standing desks and a lot of those parts could be 3D printed. I’m not suggesting that the tabletop, at least not yet, but there are a lot of the mechanisms that make that particular product work that could be industrialized through 3D print, you know, very successfully.

Bryan Uribe: It’d be great if we could touch on, cause I know you were, you just kinda like sprinkle a little salt on it and you mentioned that you had a design firm and now you’re in the Carmen of it model Carmen.

Matthew Wells: How did I start the model car business?

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, if you wouldn’t mind just explain a little bit.

Daniel Guiney: Which model motor car for does of us that don’t know.

Matthew Wells: Perhaps you’ve heard of die-cast cars?

Bryan Uribe: Yeah, that’s what they used to make them, what was it? Hot wheels.

Matthew Wells: Yeah. There’s a whole genre of the industry of the model car industry where you build the entire car. In other words, you just don’t go out and buy the box and the car is already built up and it’s die-cast and its metal. There’s a section of the industry, for people that build model cars and the same thing that happens in the model car world that happens in the real car world, meaning in the real car world, there are manufacturers and dealers and distributors and then there’s the aftermarket. And the same thing takes place in the model car world; they’re manufacturers, they’re dealers, they’re distributors and there is the aftermarket and scale motorsport. The first business I started is… yeah, it works pretty well and our slogan is build something and so every, and we’ve had that slogan now for almost 20 years.

           So I’ve seen many other industries from construction to computers to a lot of other, a lot of other industrial industries use that, that reference, they tweak it a little bit. So, it focuses more on their particular industry but builds something that is what scale motorsport is all about. We wanted to encourage our customers and non-customers to who would get interested in the hobby, a building model, cars to build, we just want them to build. So what scale motorsport is in the model car world, we’re in the territory of the aftermarket. So in the real car world say you’ve got a Toyota supra and in which case it’s fairly old at this point and you want to repair the brakes or you want to upgrade some of the interiors or you want to have carbon fiber body components, um, you would go to an aftermarket supplier for all those parts. And essentially that’s what happens in the model car world, people come to scale motorsport, they go by them, the model car kits that are manufactured by other people, they build the cars, but they build them using additional parts that help further enhance their building and the details.

           Now there are model car events all over the world, every month there’s in the states, there’s a model of our event, we’re registered to go down to Chattanooga this summer, in August for what is called the IPMS nationals. And there’ll be 10, 15,000 people there. Uh, and there’ll probably be anywhere there’ll be any words from three to 5,000 models on display, every one of them will be judged and not everybody will be a winner.

Daniel Guiney: No participation trophies?

Matthew Wells: Right. Yeah…

Daniel Guiney: Is no 3000 police trophy?

Matthew Wells: But you see some pretty creative stuff being done at a customer last year who entered the IPMS nationals was in Phoenix and he brought a model that did levitation. He could, he took, he built a spaceship and had it floating. He figured out how to use magnets and he programmed the software so the magnets would turn on and off very quickly and they would cause the spaceship to rise and the fall, it’s that kind of model building that goes on. The thing we did, nothing’s attached to it. People would walk by and not understand what they were looking at first. And they realized this thing is actually, and it would flow, you know, depending upon how he had his magnet set up.

Bryan Uribe: Even at light travel

Daniel Guiney: Fucking mind-blowing.

Matthew Wells: He’s a pretty creative guy. 

Bryan Uribe: Who is this guy? Is he like an engineer too or?

Matthew Wells: Well, he used to be an air traffic controller. He’s an air traffic controller putting together Hubbard motto cars. Well this was a spaceship so there this particular show has all genres of model building from military and all the phases of the military, air force, marines, Navy, there’s figure building lots of people build figures. Then there’s a model car aspect of the genre of the industry and that’s worked out fairly well. What I tell people is that I first asked him, do you know what AMG is to Mercedes? Okay, well, scale motorsport is the AMG of the model car world. So when you want to drop the bomb and like drop that, that’s the one sense that hits home for either the AMG. We are the AMG of the model car world or we are, what roof is to Porsche. The same thing as the same relationship today AMG has with Mercedes, well they used to, now AMG is a part of Mercedes but…

Bryan Uribe: Be smooth.

Matthew Wells: Yeah. So that’s been very gratifying, the businesses 20 years old and out of it grew a real interest in 3D printing, we started using 3D printing in 2003 for rapid prototyping purposes to test out the products that we were developing for the model cars. It was somewhat crude back then, but as the years progressed, I could see it getting more and more sophisticated and I could tell that within a certain period, wrap the activity of rapid, pro rapid, prototyping would turn to the industrialization of 3D print where the products that you’re buying are 3D printed and they’re not, for instance, this mic that good chance that that was rapid prototyped and they tested out a lot of different configurations and then the CAD files were finally created, finalized and then sent out for injection molding for the parts to be injection molded. Where we’re going to skip all that now…

Daniel Guiney: CAD for those of us that don’t know, computer-aided design is it?

Matthew Wells: Yeah, yeah. Some people refer to a computer, in the beginning, it was called computer-aided drafting, but people don’t use that, the term computerized, don’t use the word drafting anymore. When I was living in Seattle, the design firm I had, we changed our name. I saw everything that we were doing was on a computer no one else was doing that, and so I called it the electronic design studio, the word digital wasn’t something in our vocabulary at the time as associated to design as it might be today. Anyway, so this housing for that microphone unit can all be a 3D printed, you can eliminate the need for tooling are your CAD files.

Bryan Uribe: Okay. Sweet, that’s very streamlined. [Inaudible 00:27:13]

Matthew Wells: You eliminate, you can make changes faster, it’s easier to test out, the changes that you made cause you’re still doing rapid prototyping and so now there are several different genres of printers. You know, they have printers that are specifically for rapid prototyping and then some printers are used for actual manufacturing.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, I think that’s fascinating. I think I’ve shared this with you a couple of weeks ago. Back in 2016, I worked for a company, one of the products we could sell was 3D printers and I was trying to sell them, it was a tour converted company and their focus was older vehicles that no longer parts are made for. So they’d get like extremely rare, like Ferrari car parts and riders the sixties, nobody’s manufacturing that or it can be a Peugeot from 83, or Dotson, like all of these more niche and exclusive cars that no longer have any parts made. I was pitching to them, why don’t you get this titanium 3D printer and it would use titanium dust is printed close to like a production-ready and you could put it inside a vehicle, I think the heat would last like a thousand degrees Fahrenheit, so it could be used in an actual environment. And you just got to like a pressure wash it down to like smooth it out, it was crazy this is 2016, I can’t even imagine what they have now.

Matthew Wells: Oh yeah. Metal printing, the area of 3D printing, that a lot of these manufacturers, the manufacturers of 3D printers are focusing on as metal. Metal is the big push and it’s the big push primarily as a result of the automotive industry.

Daniel Guiney: [Inaudible 00:29:03], have you heard of them?

Matthew Wells: Sure.

Daniel Guiney: You heard of [inaudible 00:29:06]?

Matthew Wells: Yeah.

Daniel Guiney: So [Inaudible 00:29:07] for those of you that don’t know, is this ultra-luxury car manufacturer. So they make supercars, exotic cars and they’re the first ones, they make hypercars. And then they are the first one that made a mega car, which generates a megaton of force.

Matthew Wells: Electric.

Daniel Guiney: No, this was like, this is a gas car. It was called the one-to-one and it was like $2.5 million, they only made 10 of them, they’re amazing but yeah, they are insane. I don’t drive one of those one days maybe. But yeah, they have in shock, I’m like a huge fan of [Inaudible 0029:44]. They have a titanium 3D printer and they have multiple 3D printers because they make such a small volume that for them to go and tell somebody to make it for them, it would just cost way too much money. So they made the biggest tailpipe at the time and it was a titanium 3D printer, they did it in house and they printed it, they put it right into the vehicle. It’s a vehicle that has like 1200, horsepower and I think it weighs like 1200, it weighs six kilos less than it has a horsepower. So that’s why it’s the first megawatt, I think it’s a megawatt is what they call it. 

Bryan Uribe: How long until we start having these products, you might have some neat, maybe not super was built in-home, but until we start getting to that point where instead of ordering something on Amazon or maybe you order it on Amazon and it downloads [Inaudible 00:30:40], print it in your house.

Matthew Wells: Well, people are working on that scenario. There’s been a lot of talk about the future concerning having a room in your home that is dedicated to 3D printing like you may have a room in your home for theater. I think that maybe pushing it a bit but it certainly is possible. In that particular case, we have the technology, we have the capability all that stuff can happen. You can set up a room in your house today with a 3D printer and over the internet you can download files or grab files from the cloud and print directly in your house, so that’s there. The only thing that, and it’s a major thing that would prevent that from happening is simply people’s willingness or interest in doing that. Is the market interested in going that far? Sure, there will be people who want to do that but will the market ever be large enough to do that? And I think that is what contributed to the early stages of 3D printing. That’s what contributed to the negativity around it, the technology got a lot of hype in the market, all primarily not only at the industrial level but at the street level. And so a lot of people heard about it, got excited about it, and I thought, hey, great, you know, I can, if this breaks, I can just print it out here and get it fixed. Well, that is possible but again, how much people are willing to get that deep into it, does the market exist? 

           Are people out there willing and wanting to buy it and have that kind of set up in their home. So some real basic market forces will never, ever change regardless of the technology that’s out there, regardless of the cost. And that’s one area that kind of touches on that, it is the market, they’re willing enough to pay for. 

Daniel Guiney: Supply the technologies.

Matthew Wells: Yeah, the supply is there. We can do it but is that demand there? Do people want to want to do it? I don’t know we’ll see. 

Daniel Guiney: I think that’s fascinating. There’s a documentary on Singapore where they show 3D printers for food and that’s mind-blowing. 

Matthew Wells: Yes, yeah. 3D printing for food is a [inaudible 00:33:41].

Daniel Guiney: It’s crazy and so they include, they have challenges because they are an island and they don’t have a ton of space, they’re surrounded by saltwater. So they’re like the entire documentary is based on how this is the city of the future. And when they were talking about the food, it’s to give you the exact amount of nutrients that you need, the exact amount of protein, sodium, carbohydrates…

Matthew Wells: And you’d have control…

Daniel Guiney: In a little like, you eat it and your body is satisfied. It’s mind-blowing how some of this is going on and seeing it.

Matthew Wells: Yeah. Printing food is something, in this country, there have been experiments with printing food, but this food that we’ve been printing at least, and I don’t work in this area, so I don’t know that much about it, but they are experimenting with printing, Oreo cookies, not healthy stuff. Yeah, so that’s a contrast between the US and Singapore. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s awesome. 

Matthew Wells: Yeah, we need the Oreo cookies to be 3D printed. That’s where we have to spend our money on our technology. 

Bryan Uribe: It certainly went back around to get, because I know you are an expert in this space throughout the food space, but could you dive in a little bit more about the categories you do specialize in and where your company’s operating right now? 

Daniel Guiney: So specifically more towards, what you’re doing right now with your grip technology. 

Matthew Wells: Yeah. Let me explain quickly how I got there. So, you know, we’ve been developing automotive parts, using 3D printing and rapid prototyping for many, many years, as it relates to model cars. So the model cars or scale anywhere from one 43rd up to one eight scales. And we’re primarily known for our carbon fiber decals, but we do develop, wheels, brakes, all sorts of, surface detailing products and we wanted to develop a new wheel line and I thought we could apply a 3D printing, and 3D print the actual product in other words, in the past we’ve been using 3D printing for rapid prototyping, doing making study models, if you will. But the technology I felt was far enough along and that we could get a quality finish on the product that our customers would accept and so we developed a line of a modular line of wheels, we developed a billet style, we align and American torque trust we align, and all those parts except for the metal parts. And I’ll explain why not the metal, all the parts that make up the central part of the wheels are 3D printed. The metal parts are not 3D printed because, they are way too expensive, the price point of the product and not be acceptable by the customer.

           So we released that product line, actually industrialized 3D printed product line in 2015 and I thought it was great and I’m still quite proud of it. It sells fairly well, it’s easy for us to change designs or add designs to the product line but, so we marketed as 3D print and wheels and everybody got real excited, you know, oh, this is cool. It’s printed.

           It’s the look of the wheels. Well, you know, 3D printing is just a process, in the end, it’s a wheel and it has to function the way the wheel is supposed to function and the 3D printing aspect of it, while it at the time was novel and useful to the customer. It’s just a manufacturing activity and what we were doing was we were taking, engineering and 3D printing and applying it to a product that already existed, it’s called reverse engineering. And that’s what a lot of the parts that you referred to when people want to retrofit old parts to an old Ferrari or an old Mercedes, reverse engineering is taking apart that’s already exists in the world that was already designed using a completely different thought process using a completely different way of solving, thinking about solving problems, and applying it, 3D printing to that. So the term reverse engineering is what’s pretty much been, tagged the term used to describe that. The real benefit, the real wonder of 3D printing is not in reverse engineering, although there are some really strong benefits in that area but, it is to realize the true benefits of 3D printing requires a whole new way of thinking about product design, engineering, and development. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s completely innovative space, it’s inventing the game. 

Matthew Wells: Well it’s creating a whole new game. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. [Inaudible 00:39:41] one.

Matthew Wells: And most of the people in my generation, we’re never taught to think that way. We were taught to think about creating a model, developing a prototype, and then having tooling made for injection molding well you don’t have to think that way anymore. The cad software and the 3D printing and the rapid prototyping completely freeze you up to thinking about new ways of doing things. And the software that is being developed for 3D printing, solve problems that we as humans aren’t able to do yet. So I could quit. I could see very easily or as a result of the activity of developing that we align that the true benefits of 3D printing wasn’t a completely different universe than reverse engineering and that’s where I wanted to go. I wanted to push that technology. 

Bryan Uribe: Then being able to see the future where this is going to go, not just the application detect right now, but exactly how it’s going to evolve this space. 

Matthew Wells: Correct. And so I started doing a lot of investigation, which I had to do with going to a lot of different trade shows, everything from engineering trade shows to manufacturing trade shows and CES in Vegas, acute consumer electronic show. 

Speaker 1: Thank you. 

Daniel Guiney: It’s the largest technology event in the world. 

Matthew Wells: It’s massive, it’s unbelievable. I had to go to the Nike store in Vegas to buy another pair of sneakers while I was there because I had walked so much that my feet were hurting and I had to get a new pair of sneakers to get comfortable. The place is beyond description. 

Bryan Uribe: Nice to give us a discount code to drop down here. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Great. [Inaudible 00:41:44] my Adidas up. 

Bryan Uribe: Yeah. We’ll even blur that out for [Inaudible 00:41:49] 

Matthew Wells: Oh, I got my first pair of Flyknits, they were great. They were just absolutely just beautiful.

Bryan Uribe: Awesome. 

Daniel Guiney: Send us some free sneakers, never wear these again.

Matthew Wells: Right. There are 3D printing those as well, Adidas now has a relationship with a company called Carbon, which has a unique, method of 3D printing. And the souls of a certain line of sneakers will now be 3D printed and this gets to the bait to the basics of the 3D printing, which has to do with the software and it allows you to think about solving design problems differently than we were able to do even 10 years ago. So we’re using that same sort, well, we’re using similar software to design forms that allow us to integrate 3D printing with sensor technology, after going through years worth of research and looking for a problem to solve by using 3D printing in a way that forced us to think about product design differently than we have done in the past. I came across an idea that I thought might have a relevance that had to do with measuring grip force and it was easy.

           The easy part was designing the product, we hooked up with a major leading engineering university and they worked with us in developing a grip that allowed us to use a proprietary piece of software that would allow us to integrate the center technology into the grip. And, after two and a half years, we went ahead and filed our first patent, just two, three months ago. And that was a big accomplishment. I do use that. 

Bryan Uribe: It’s hard to file a patent, but when you do it, you gotta do it right.

Matthew Wells: Yeah. I’ve got the expenses to show it. So, while we were involved in that activity, I realized that not only was it important to be able to, not only could this device measure the force that you’re applying on an object and how your performance with that object is impacted by that force. I also thought, well, I wonder if we could measure the force from something that’s expanding, is there some area that, of product or interaction with a product that would help the performance of the person, if they could measure the force it’s being exerted outwardly instead of inwardly. And, so we’re now involved in the same thing integrating sensor technology with 3D print, but it has to do with medical devices that help to measure a swelling, temperature, moisture. So that’s the next thing we’re involved in.

Bryan Uribe: That’s some shit, that’s cool.

Daniel Guiney: Mic drop, mind blown.

Bryan Uribe: Is that gonna, you might not even have an answer to this yet. Is that gonna fundamentally pivot where your company’s coming? 

Matthew Wells: Yes. 

Bryan Uribe: At the space. Do you think you would even want your new entity to handle that division or would you just be on division of it? 

Matthew Wells: Yeah, the medical field is quite a bit different than this. Well, there are synergies, there are relationships between obviously the medical field in the sports field. So, there may be in the future some type of, sharing our relationship between the two. I haven’t focused on that at this point but, as it is with many other things that I know you’re aware of, that when it comes to developing a product, the real secret to the sauce is in the software, it’s not in the manufacturing of this item. The real secret to this sauce is everything that goes into it to make this item and so I can’t expose too much of what we’re doing, but never going to actually to a suggestion that Brian made, we started to look, we started to train our focus up, or refine our focus a bit to more on the software aspect of the product in the product itself because the actual product itself will be manufactured on-site, it’ll be manufactured in the field of battle. It will be for the military, it’ll be manufactured in the sports facilities around the world and it will be manufactured in hospitals around the world. And so that’s where the manufacturing is going to take place, it’s not going to take place from some central point and then we ship you the product, you’re going to manufacture the product. And this gets back to what you’re talking about that the subject brought up about manually, you’re doing 3D printing at home?

Bryan Uribe: Yes. 

Matthew Wells: It’s going to happen in the manufacturing genre first before it gets to the residential genre. 

Bryan Uribe: Phases, yeah. 

Matthew Wells: What’s that? 

Bryan Uribe: It’s going to be phases of [Inaudible 00:48:11].

Matthew Wells: Yeah. The actual manufacturing of the product will take place in the field where it’s needed not a thousand miles away and then shipped to you. And so the real product for us is the software and systems that allow you to do that on-site, that’s the secret. So that’s performance sports, the new business is about and we’re thinking about changing the name from sports, to performance labs, labs as a, I think a broader meeting

Daniel Guiney: I just want to challenge you on a point that you said earlier, having multiple entities, in theory, sounds like a great idea. My concern with always hearing that companies have multiple entities under one holding company, yet it’s the same CEO, but it’s typically different team members, right? The sharing of information isn’t as transparent, we’re not all building Tesla and solar city where like they’re like actively sharing information and like right, we’re not Ilan, right? Like the SpaceX, guys aren’t going to come to if it was anybody but I don’t see the SpaceX guys going in into Tesla and helping them redesign how they’re doing their batteries or helping with the aerodynamics of the vehicle and then solar cities. Like, I don’t see that type of synergy happening with most organizations, maybe for you to work cause you’re an engineer so you just understand things at that level.

           My biggest concern is always when hearing that there are multiple entities somewhat attacking the same issue and it’s by the same founder, the cross-communication and cross-pollination of information may not come as organically as one would think. So I would even challenge you on a lot of organizations that have multiple verticals of products. So for the company I used to work with, we had vertical industries and then we had vertical services and vertical products. So basically it’s multiple organizations under one company, but they’re all like hitting the same balance sheet, it’s just kind of like that division show. We’d have like a copier segment, there’d be a software segment solely, and there’s a managed service and that’s like app development, like actually managing infrastructures, projects, IT appointments that we had a content management system service that didn’t touch what the software servers, the software division did, so those were two different PNLs and then there was a 3D printing and then all the other third party products and services. So not to say that you need something as complicated as that, but if it’s just like performance labs is this, this is what we do and this is one application and this is not as expensive as if you were to get this one but the fundamental benefits of this one are different from this one because all applications are different, right? 

Matthew Wells: Yeah, the market’s different. Well, both of these companies, both the medical-related product and the sports-related product are different markets. There may be some correlation, but both activities are really in their infancy right now. Yeah. And so, we’ll see what happens as time goes on concerning synergies if you will, of the two or not. 

Bryan Uribe: And it’s not going totally on the bottom of the [inaudible 00:51:46]. 

Matthew Wells: Yeah. So, you know, we’ll see what happens. 

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. I even say like the sharing of data, right? At this early stage for any software, you don’t have a million users using it. If you could just get 10 people to use it, it’s like, yes, we finally got some data and then once you get to 20 and then once you had a hundred, the quality of data you’re getting is very different. And sharing that for both use cases would be super powerful. So yeah, I would love to dive in a little bit more so on the sports tech because it is sports tech. So it’s interesting because it’s the health tech and it is sports tech; for the sports tech, help the audience understand, I get what you do, help the audience understand a little bit better on the original thought on how it would be implemented if you don’t mind. And if it seems awesome and it’s something proprietary you don’t have to show.

Matthew Wells: What aspect would be implemented? 

Bryan Uribe: What would you do with sensor tech?

Matthew Wells: Oh, well, in the case of the sporting goods the patent based focuses on measuring the grip force that you’re applying to the object and in the case of golf, for instance, being able to measure the grip force that you’re applying to your putter, for instance, has a big impact on the success of your Putt. There are many, many aspects to putting that impact, the success of a Putt, but they’re the one area that seems to allude, everybody, that there’s never really been a solution for, is being able to capture and measure the grip force you’re applying and know how to adjust that from a data perspective. So you do apply the correct grip force. Currently, if you take golf lessons, most of the time your coach is going to tell you to hold it like you would a chicken or a baby cat, a kitten. You know, be very light. 

Bryan Uribe: I don’t have any chickens. [inaudible]

Matthew Wells: A kitten is probably better you want to hold it, they soft, you don’t want to squeeze it. And they use those kinds of references for training on how to grip the putter. There has never been a real product that helps you measure what a successful grip pressure is, so that was the problem that I was trying to solve. 

Daniel Guiney: That’s awesome. 

Matthew Wells: That was the number one problem. 

Bryan Uribe: That’s a phase to get into. 

Matthew Wells: Yeah. So we did that and that’s what our patent is based on. We have run hundreds and hundreds of test trials, we’ve got the putting profile. We have the grip profiles of dozens of people through hundreds and hundreds of putts and we can see, for instance, someone with an eight handicap what they’re putting a profile looks like, both from a visual perspective and a numerical output data perspective. And compare that to someone who’s got no handicap at all because they don’t play golf and everybody in between.

Daniel Guiney: I would like to see a visualization of that data and see what will happen if you put it on a golf blogging website.

Bryan Uribe: Open it up in an app, a freemium type of model that could be cool. 

Matthew Wells: Sure. 

Daniel Guiney: Just visualizing it right? Cause you used to have to buy the sensory tech. Right? 

Bryan Uribe: Right. 

Daniel Guiney: But I wonder what level of interest you could get if you just said, hey guys on Reddit, on a golfing, like guys, check this out. 

Bryan Uribe: Have you ever seen this before? 

Matthew Wells: Yeah.

Daniel Guiney: You want to know why you suck at putting.

Matthew Wells: It’s 50% of the game.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. So I’d say you want to know why you suck at golf? Probably partying and you want to see a really interesting start on it, boom. I can see that going well. Well, like the golf community, how big is it? Golf can be a big dude. Well, there are many millions. 

Matthew Wells: Very globally, there’s 50 million, half of which are in the US alone. 

Daniel Guiney: Okay, so 25 million Americans Golf, 182 million Americans, we’re talking about 30% of Americans golf, that could go viral. That’s a viral that does have, right? Because if it goes viral within 100,000 people, is it viral? But like something like that 30 million, that’s a large enough community where I could see people just losing their shit. Like what is this, sign up and I’ll send you, yeah, right.

Matthew Wells: I hadn’t thought about that approach.

Bryan Uribe: It just jumps down that rabbit hole. I apologize. I don’t mean to cut you off, but I have you given thought to how you’re gonna monetize this yet and, or is that one of the challenges you’re facing? 

Daniel Guiney: Just to kind of piggyback on that light is going to be the next segment of like business challenges, right? So, yeah, please answer this question then. 

Matthew Wells: Well the time that we spent from a design and engineering development activity was really, although it’s a major component to the product without doing the market research and all the other activities around trying to develop a business that can scale. That’s about 75% of the time that we spent shits in enormous, you know, there’s an enormous amount of legal work that gets done an enormous amount of market research that gets done. And then studying all those reports, constantly going over them and seeing how that may impact costs. If you’ve got to have a clear understanding of what the potential market size is because that impacts your projections for production and growth. And like I said, that’s 75% of the time that we spend doing that so that you’ve got to go through all of that, along with the product testing. Now we’re still in a prototype phase, so it’s not as a sleek or slick and refined as a finished product, but it operates and approves our concept.

Daniel Guiney: I would challenge you to say you’re probably at an Alpha phase, right? The prototype is technically an Alpha, I mean, you kind of go from prototype to Alpha with a more polished product and then finish it off with the Beta. But having the kind of data, like I don’t care about anything else but the data and that’s what just about every other person cares. Like anybody that’s going to start a successful business as soon, especially within the software, once you get the data, it’s like, guys, this is what we could do, this is our actual impact. And then obviously it becomes more difficult to qualify what that’s going to mean to the end-user customer. But I would even challenge you, you could accelerate everything if you just like Polish up the data media kinda pretty until like infographics maybe it can be like a long graphic. Lost it out there. Like, hey guys, check this out and sign up on my website and send a survey.

Bryan Uribe: Follow us, yeah. 

Daniel Guiney: What do you guys think? How much did you pay for this? 

Matthew Wells: That’s an interesting approach.

Daniel Guiney: And then just like ask them.

Bryan Uribe: What is this worth to you? If you increase your putting game and take three strokes off your game.

Daniel Guiney: You’re going to get that one guy that just lost a thousand dollars on the course, he pays you 100 bucks. 

Matthew Wells: Yeah, for sure.

Bryan Uribe: The guy that wants to become, I am not a golfer, but I golf right?

Daniel Guiney: No, he doesn’t.

Bryan Uribe: Like I will go out there and try my best, but I will just make my best ability on the golf course to make you look really good as a golfer by just sending that shit in the woods and like, I’ll play drop ball, you know what I mean? If I had something that I could, I don’t know if it was like slide onto my putter or what, or I could just sit there and get good at being able to put, or just knowing what kind of strength of pressure I have to put on there. I pay for that because, you know, I’m not a fanatical golfer and I might not consider it like if they said, are you a golfer? I might not check the box, yes. You know, I would want something like that. That to me, seems almost like a shortcut, right? Like I don’t have to spend 50,000 hours out there practicing, I can just figure out how hard I have to hold it and then practice from there. Skip a lot of that, that’s valuable. 

Matthew Wells: And that’s what the data would do. And that’s really what the century technology is all about, is capturing that data and putting it in a form that shows you how to add a grip or not to grip. And then take that data from the entire group of people that are using your product and have access to all that data and then you become smarter about how to put out and share that data with the participating population.

Daniel Guiney: I would even challenge, right? Like if you have all this data and you know the exact inflection point to get you to whatever a good golfers, I don’t golf and dad saw me two weeks ago. He’s not pretty.

Bryan Uribe: He’s not lying.

 Matthew Wells:          Yeah, he doesn’t go for it.

Bryan Uribe:    I don’t know. I’ll hit a ball, barely but like if you could find a way to visualize that data and you say, this is what, like, what’s a good golfer? I don’t know what’s good, is there a handicap? Is there no handicap?

Daniel Guiney: Like, well, once you get below 10, you’re starting to get pretty good, 10 handicaps. So mostly I think the average…

Bryan Uribe:    Woods, tiger woods?

Daniel Guiney: The average is about 2020 to 20 to 25.

Bryan Uribe:    So most people suck.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. People like tiger woods or that they’re referred to as scratch golfers. They don’t have a handicap.

Bryan Uribe:    Okay, yeah. Like people with no handicap or like a two or three, this is like their inflection point because you still gotta have to overcome the rest of your shittiness and golf. So like being able to say, if you were to hold it to this, you could at least put like these people and like kind of get the story that way. And I wouldn’t even say like a lot of times we as founders, we want to make the most polished product. It has to be sexy, it has to be pretty, it has to have all the features that we envision whenever we’re driving home at 11 o’clock at night from a great event and you’re just like, oh my God, what if I did this? What if I did this right? Like our minds just, they don’t stop. But just saying this is the least product that the market would accept. What if I just made a $10,000 app that only told me that I’m like pressing it too much and like, and like connect via Bluetooth. And then like…

Daniel Guiney: Here actually you brought up an actual point, you brought up an excellent point. When any of us are involved in developing products of any kind that have to do with technology, we get buried and, and all the minutia around that. And the biggest struggle, the number one biggest struggle I have as an entrepreneur is not only developing the product but explaining it and trying to pitch it is knowing how to edit my thoughts, my words and my explanations. Being able to edit and distill everything that you’re trying to say down to the simplest, cleanest and most direct point to make your point clear and concise so that it hits home. That is really, that’s where I spend actually of the greater part of my time is writing and rewriting and rewriting and distilling down every point I’m trying to make.

Matthew Wells:           We have a practice for our executive summaries, I’ll go.

Bryan Uribe:    The one page.

Matthew Wells:           Oh yeah, the one page or, yeah. We have a practice that, so when we meet, there’s a one-pager. When we send our proposal to a client, it’s a one-pager and if it’s going past the one-pager, there’s nothing on the second page that’s like critical project related. It’s legitimate and the like disclosure and the thought process is if it can’t fit on one page, you’re talking too much. It’s too much and it’s difficult to get an entire business plan for a multimillion-dollar, multibillion-dollar business or a multimillion or billion-dollar valuated business, it’s very difficult to do that into one page, but we will, before we start, it’s what you do, how you do it and why you do it.

           And I know some people that have seen that Simon Sinek video, we take it a step further though and then we force you to do it again. And I just told ’em one of our friends who sell insurance, um, I told them to do that cause he’s like, I want to like refine it. My bio is three pages. I’m like, you got a fucking three-page bio guy, who are you? What are you doing bro? And I asked him like, can you send me a two to three sentence blurb because I want to introduce you to some of mine, some people in my network that may be beneficial to you. I let a three page buy, I’ll send it to you. I was like, yeah, you’re going to send it to me and I’m honestly just going to take two sentences that make the most sense.

Bryan Uribe:    Probably, probably the last two sentences.

Matthew Wells:           Yeah. So what we do is we do the what, how, why one time and then we do it a second time. And what we typically find is they that you put in your way and that is going to force you into like refining everything else and keeping that to 20 sentences. Right, like if you could be that concise, not 20 sentences, 20 words so there’s one sentence per question and like 20 words Max.

Bryan Uribe:    If you go over like a couple of words, okay, fine. But it shouldn’t be a 50-word sentence, right? Like that’s too much. The other thing I would do, two other things I would say is telling it to a child that you don’t know and then ask them to tell it to you back. Yeah. What you’re going to find is they’re going to simplify it for you so much and then just get a bunch of strangers and just consistently tell your idea to them. And so what are your thoughts? And then you’ll typically find, well, huh, I don’t do this, this and this. And they, you’re just going to start to hear all the concerns and questions like very like you’re going to get all the feedback and objections out of them and it’s going to put you into a situation where you become much more deadly. But it is three sense like if you can’t tell me what you do in three sentences too much. Yeah. I know what you’re doing, I think it’s amazing.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. I recently read I’m reading that pitch or anything. The author points out that Crick and the guys that were given credit for developing a double helix, it DNA. Yeah. Watson and Crick, my wife worked for them actually which is probably as he pointed out one of the most significant scientific discoveries of the 20th century. So when they went to give their pitch, can you think of anything that would have more technology and more science and more stuff behind it? Their pitch was five minutes, that was it. And it’s all about being able to edit and continually distilled down to them and refine it to the clearest direct pointed to.

Matthew Wells:           I just send it to the console mastermind group and you as well, is it a collection online that recently came out? If I don’t read it. So shout out to the user that put this together. It’s all the pitch decks for several different, like tech startups.

Bryan Uribe:    Oh really?

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, like Facebook either.

Matthew Wells:           Oh No, hold on. What did you send out a link to it? Listen to the pitch, the actual pitches.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, they did it in 2008, this is too early. You know, when you stop to think about how people are, the pitch decks people are doing now compared to what they did back then.

Bryan Uribe:    I follow a bunch of VCs on Twitter, there is this one VC, she’s an angel investor she said, I recently just received in a mobile-ready pitch deck. So the decks are landscape.

Daniel Guiney: Landscape is horizontal. Portrait is vertical.

Bryan Uribe:    It’s a portrait. So it’s portrait, it’s a portrait deck. Yeah. She blew her like it blew her mind and you should see how this tweet one, like I think over like 2000 likes, over a hundred different replies. The designer of the deck got in on it, a bunch of people followed her and it’s just like within that community, that’s what’s happening. Like Backlund Uber did this, no offense Hoover, but your deck sucked. It wasn’t pretty. It’s going to, I don’t think it mattered. It didn’t matter. Right? Like, yeah so congrats on your IPL, right. But I think that’s interesting where a lot of, like, we’ve had this conversation a lot too where I get to the point where I’m like, I don’t even want to, I don’t even care about the design, it’s just what I’m seeing and how effectively am I saying it. And Matt’s more of a designer sees like Matt redesigned the Yoshi logo, so he has redesigned it, nice job and he helped me with my pitch deck. So kind of a border of services there but yeah, and sometimes we just get so enveloped in it, right? Cause your idea’s amazing and you know, it’s amazing and you think everybody should know it’s amazing and then it’s like, why isn’t it going anywhere? 

Daniel Guiney: Sometimes it’s not even that it’s not going anywhere, you’re just not letting it go anywhere. And that’s why I’m saying like if you could just like throw something out to get outside of your head. Like when I have an update on [Inaudible 00:09:24] 

Bryan Uribe:           The Facebook slogan used to be “fail early, fail often” get it out there, let us talk and then everybody’s gonna tell you what to fix. It’s just a matter of if you’re gonna listen to them. Yeah. So I’m just thinking about something I wanted to throw your way and tell me if you thought of this before I just stick to the trend of the golfing application for this, cause I know there’s a whole plethora of them. It’s hard to break into that market with something difficult to show the proof, right? Yeah. And you want it in a way that people can use the product and immediately see results. That’s going to be one of the major hurdles you say, we were just at one of those indoor golf arenas. I wonder if instead of trying to partner with top golf town golf back nine, you know, instead of trying to partner with [inaudible 00:10:06]. There you go. And how’d that go?

Bryan Uribe:    If you could share.

Matthew Wells:           If you could share.

Daniel Guiney: You look warm, Lukewarm.

Bryan Uribe:    Dude, honestly…

Daniel Guiney: No, we think there’s that. We think there’s a definite fit there, showing them the value up, but it’s all about crafting the pitch and distilling it down to it’s clean as most direct point, but there is a, there is a fit there.

Bryan Uribe:    I’m going to show you could even do, like you didn’t, if you could somehow come in and just like hosting an event there instead of having them buy in all the way. Like, cause I’m a big believer in that, it’s a bad idea to ask people for something. It’s a better idea to give people something. So if you go in and give them an event where you have a whole bunch of people coming who are maybe in the golf field or whatever, let them utilize the premise and you have your thing actively employed while they’re doing it and show them this is something your consumers want. Then they would have no pressure recorders.

Daniel Guiney: Right.

Matthew Wells:           What are the challenges Tom Golf is a national org so you’d probably have to go to the main one or gets all their well.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, they’re in the US are based in Dallas, they’re actually from England, British

Bryan Uribe:    So I’m going to be on the opposite side of you two guys right now and I’ve got to challenge you. I think that your market is so targeted and so specific that people that don’t have any interest in golf will never pick up a golf magazine, follow any of the golf sites. Unless if it’s for like hats or like some of the people that want to be fashion-forward and they like some of them polos or something like that. I think the only area where it will have some cross-pollination of people from outside niche markets. But at 50 million people, it is a very large market, but I think it’s hyper-targeted.

Daniel Guiney: You’re right. And that’s why we took the technology and reversed it. And so on application for, in the medical field.

Bryan Uribe:    So, with that being said, I challenge you to think through how could you go direct to consumer on this and then go to those guys. Because I like, I bet money that you could probably off 100,000 of those, you could probably sell 100,000 of those for a lot less than what you’re thinking, or at least get about a hundred thousand people to be interested in it. You could probably do it with some partnerships with somebody like you’re not saying the names going influencer to yeah, but you can do it with like an influencer or you could do it with just a brand that’s interested in what you’re doing and they’re like, let’s try this out.

           And I’d even propose it like, hey guys, you want to like, I mean you’re pretty innovative with what you do. What are your thoughts on trying something like this?

Daniel Guiney: Well, we’ve already started conversations with another setting, you know, major golf manufacturers so we’re down that path.

Matthew Wells:           I would even say don’t even have them not put any of their marketing dollars in, right? Just like, or if they want to put some capital up, a small investment $10,000 and think through some form of campaign that, you know, my head’s out and you could probably do like a giveaway and just like give it away to somebody say, hey guys, what do you guys think? And you get all the users into the program and you have them in an ecosystem already a pipeline where you could serve them customer feedback like, Hey, well, of course, you could use them and for like customer research or like, Hey, here’s a survey. I did that with the OFI, I got so much rich data, it’s insane how much data I have. When I tell people how much data I’m like, really you did it? I’m like, yeah dude, I did that and we don’t have money in the bank, they’re like, right. So you could probably get so much data from pricing down to usability down to how they would like feedback from me cause I think that’s another interesting opportunity where, how do you, I have something on my mind, I’m going to say it off-camera to you where you could have some method of feedback to know when you’re doing good and when you’re not doing good. Right, so like there’s so much, like again, it’s just collecting a lot of this data.

Daniel Guiney: Oh, you’re talking about distilling perhaps the information that shows up on your mobile device. In other words, this thing communicates you’re putting characteristics via Bluetooth to your mobile device and how that, the pressure shows up on your phone.

Matthew Wells:           It won’t be, let’s not say it on camera. It’s a pretty cool idea.

Daniel Guiney: But the best scenario was not, is nothing new that’s being done an awful lot by a lot of manufacturers that are measuring all sorts of swing characteristics in golf where they take that generator that’s dated by the sensors that are in the club and they send it to your mobile device and then you get the information.

Matthew Wells:           And it shows my thought, my idea is a step further. Okay. I don’t want to say it on camera cause it’s not in development yet, so we want to keep that motor around you. All right. Okay but yeah.

Daniel Guiney: Thank you.

Matthew Wells:           It’d be some shit guys, you were going to say something, Dan.

Bryan Uribe:    I was going to say that just coming back to the challenges you’re facing before we can, we can keep shooting in the dark and it sounds like you’re hitting a lot of these ideas already, which is… So outside of refining your why statement of what people are doing, what kind of other challenges you’ve seen bringing this to market challenges?

Daniel Guiney: Challenges.

Bryan Uribe:    Ideally something outside of Capitol.

Daniel Guiney: Oh, okay.

Bryan Uribe:    We had a guy, we had a guy Tom’s capital twice. What are the challenges? Money, like respected or respected as a major one, but just on that point, you know, I would agree that many of this…

Daniel Guiney: The biggest challenge that I see is where I spend most of my time and that is continually refining my pitch whether it’s in an environment like this or it’s sitting across the table or up in front of a screen is refining inwards, what it is you’re doing down to the simplest, clearest point you’re trying to make, that really, for me is the biggest challenge, that’s where I spend most of my time now.

           That’s where I spend most of my time because all the other areas except for capital are relatively easy for us to do. I’m working with some enormously talented people, some who are very good golfers, one of them was a golf coach for many of the pro players but the biggest challenge for me is distilling down in words the simplest, the points that I’m trying to make in a single as a clearest, concise way of doing it, that’s the biggest challenge. All the other stuff is…

Bryan Uribe:    What does it look like right now when you move forward…

Matthew Wells:           Before you dive into that, that’s going to be a packed segment. Are you working with Shit Golfers?

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, all over the place. The Best Golfer we’ve worked with has an eight handicap and then I don’t have a handicap. I didn’t come at this from the up from a love of golf, I don’t love golf, I enjoy playing it, but I’m not a golfer so I don’t, I haven’t played enough to have [Inaudible 00:18:24]. So, and then we have everything in between we’ve got people with 12, 15, 20, 22, 25 and again, what we don’t have and what we need and if anybody’s listening, because this is something that we need, is we need a pro to test a product out, that’s really what we need.

           We need to see what the prodding profile, the grip profile looks like when a pro putts as opposed to someone like me. Or we’re already seeing, we already have enough data that is telling us some very significant differences between the eight handicap and the zero handicap player. But there is a big difference between an eight handicap player and a pro player and we don’t have, we have yet to test this out on the appropriate layer. So tiger, if you’re listening, you are the greatest putter that’s ever graced the course, so please step up and let’s see what your putting profile looks like. So that’s a big challenge is getting into to getting hooked up with a pro player and seeing what their profile looks like, I’m sure that they would be fascinated. 

Bryan Uribe:    Can you, are you able to have before we’d be a little bit, are you able to make like a leaderboard with this information?

Daniel Guiney: Sure. Yeah.

Bryan Uribe:    Did that make it a contest?

Matthew Wells:           Game location, gamification of it. People free for that, they want to come.

Daniel Guiney: And that’s interesting, it’s an interesting idea. Yeah. All right, let’s not talk about too much of that stuff right now. 

Matthew Wells:           Perfect, so your other questions.

Bryan Uribe:    But I was saying before was, cause I’m sure one of the major challenges with describing this is that it doesn’t apply just to golf. Right, and when you’re trying to pitch it, you’re not trying to pitch it just for golf.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Well, we’ve done a lot of market research. Yeah. There’s, you know, you hold a baseball bat right, is that the tennis racket is the pressure that you’re applying to all of those pieces of equipment, how does that impact your play? You would initially think that that would be, um, a worthwhile pursuit and we still do but actually, the markets are so small, even baseball that most every and people have tried getting into a monetizing, capturing swing characteristics for tennis and baseball. So far no one’s been able to figure out how to monetize it, the markets are not that big. Now Golf is the second-largest sports market in the world, right behind football, firearms, football, soccer.

           Firearms are number one. Golf is too, I don’t remember where soccer is. It’s quite large.

Bryan Uribe:    It’s the top five.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. But baseball or tennis will be down there. If there is away, and there may be eventually that if as the product evolves, as our costs for producing become cheaper, less expensive, there may be an economical reason for pursuing those smaller markets. 

Bryan Uribe:    Okay. So when you describe it now, would you say it takes 10 minutes to describe it? Five minutes to describe it for 30 seconds.

Daniel Guiney: Oh, I haven’t practiced it in a couple of weeks, but I can get my pitch down to 20 seconds, for the golf product, I’ve gotten it down to 22.


Bryan Uribe:    What I’m trying to understand is, you were saying your challenges are always refining the deck, so I’m trying to understand what parts specifically are challenging the most there.

Daniel Guiney: Oh the biggest challenge is not getting caught up in the weeds, the biggest challenge is not getting is again, distilling the thought down to the simplest, cleanest, most concise way of saying what it is you’re trying to say. Get your point across quickly and simply. The biggest challenge in the deck is probably after that would be the opening slide, the first 15 seconds, 10 and 15 seconds.

Bryan Uribe:    What’s the name of the product? If you come up with a name for what this device is called yet? Is it something you can’t share.

Daniel Guiney: So yeah, we have three products. Smartforce, which is the grip for cutter; smart stroke and smart strike and smart stroke and smart strike are for irons and drivers. So we see this technology being applied to the other clubs, the other clubs in your bag, not just the putter. So we started with the putter because there had been changes in putter grips over the last five, 10 years that provide a lot of real estates so to speak. Putter grips are getting a big trend lately, recently have been what they refer to as fat boys, a putter grips and essentially what the wider putter grips are doing is it has an impact on the pressure that you’re applying to your grip. And that’s really what our product is all about is being able to measure that pressure. So if you…

Matthew Wells:           I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to cut you off, but I think it’s very easy to go in and very specifics of what the product does that just keeping to what you said was a major challenge that the first slide wouldn’t be saying specifically what it does. Is that correct any more of the over y?

Daniel Guiney: The first slide is stating clearly what the problem is you’re solving. And once you’ve creatively come up with a quick and simple way of illustrating what the problem is and then come back and being able to explain how you’re solving it, that’s really, those are the two things you need to do.

Matthew Wells:           I think to say like a five, like a five-word.

Daniel Guiney: Well five words may be a bit too short, but, you know, 20… Perhaps you know it also depends on who you’re talking to, who your audiences. 

Bryan Uribe:    Yeah, I like that. I like winning players applies more pressure, I think that’s dope. You’re in the sports arena, this is sports tech. You should not be pitching how I pitch or any other vertical market pitches. I would actually say, why don’t you jump out the window on one of these and [Inaudible 00:26:23] 50 million golfers golf every weekend to try and be tiger woods and they will, and they’re like, figure away too. And then just like take them through a story and do that right where it’s like tiger woods made an x amount of hundreds of millions of dollars in these 50 million Americans are striving to do that and you’re not playing golf.

           So yeah, some people are playing golf to get away from the wife, the kids, the husband, whatever it may be. But it inevitably ends up becoming a competitive environment, you’re trying to beat your last, I don’t even know your last score, but you’re trying to beat your friend, right? Who can hit better, whatever it may be, it is very much a community and still a very competitive sport. I would say, you should probably hone in on that and figure a way to say, and I don’t know if listing 50 million Americans or whatever it may be, but 50 million people aspire to be as good as tiger woods, but there’s this one thing that they just can’t get right. And everyone’s like, what is it already? But what is it? And then just like that, like, yeah, yeah. I clicked that link too like Shit, I want to beat Dan in golf or my other buddies at like, yeah, destroy whenever 

Daniel Guiney: Oh, that’s great. That’s a great idea, but we first

need tiger to step up and give us this parting profile, or not even right

before or any other pro I think.

Bryan Uribe:    I think for, and again it’s all, we also have to understand, we spoke about this with Delaney too, right? Where it’s the percentage of people that go pro. It’s a percentage of our percent of a percent or like these are hyper elite people.

Like he is a freak of nature all due respect to tiger woods but he’s absolutely a freak of nature. Like if you look at Lebron James, he is built like a machine, right? Like how does that guy, how is he human? Right? Or even some of the other plays that aren’t as large as him like how can you do some of these things? Like to think about it, right? You’re shooting a basketball from 30 feet away or 40 feet away into a rim that has probably about four inches of clearance. I want to try something more difficult, how about you shoot a little white ball 300 or four or five, 600 yards away and try to get a hole in one?

The guy guys do it every day though.

Matthew Wells: Yeah, okay. Right. 

Bryan Uribe:   Someone somewhere is going to get ahold of the woman maybe today and if not tomorrow, at least once a week. Right. But so I think it’s also like drawn that polarity that he is like, yeah if you have tiger woods, that’d be insane. You’d probably have to rebrand the entire company to be triggered stroker. That sounds a little wild but the Tiger strike sounds better. But yeah, so like the people that would get to that and it’s getting somebody close to zero or one handicap and bro, you won.

Matthew Wells: Yeah. Well yeah,

Bryan Uribe:    Even getting somebody up 10 points in a year or five points in a year.

Matthew Wells: That’s huge. The whole purpose of the product, perhaps the why for the product is to lower your handicap if it doesn’t do that, then it is, there’s no need or no sense to use it.

Daniel Guiney:  You want to hear something that’s going to be kind of nuts, lower your handicap or your money-back guarantee.

Matthew Wells: That is nuts.

Yeah. Well [inaudible 00:30:10]

Daniel Guiney: Yeah. Pressure your handicap into, I don’t want to say

submission, but like pressure. Your handicap is just something that people are like, what are you even talking about? Press your handicap into the something right there, something that ties into the pressure aspect of…

Bryan Uribe: I had something really, I would probably say don’t go pressure. I would say golf like a pro without putting in the same on hours, you got to draw a polarity, right?

Daniel Guiney: Our tagline is trained smart play to win. Yeah, but we could come up with something that’s the next to like, my question will be like, what’s the next thing? Right. Because it’s like, okay, cool. Well, fucking, I don’t know what that means, it could be basketball. 

Matthew Wells: Exactly. Well, we wanted it to be sports-related and we wanted it to relate to winning, uh, and, um, but we wanted it to be somewhat ambiguous so that it didn’t focus too much

on one particular sport or one particular product.

Bryan Uribe:    So my thoughts on that is that’s confusing to the customer because you don’t have the other products available yet. I would say it’d be super targeted, a hundred percent argument, like, okay, like get your shit handicap up or like put like a pro, or like what if you could go off like a pro? Yeah. What if, man, if we can click that, right? Like I’d probably, I’d click that and see what’s going on.

Daniel Guiney: You gotta get the skill profile, you could over time have

like a training regimen that shows them their progression towards appropriate.

Matthew Wells: Well yes, exactly.

Bryan Uribe: You need diverse [inaudible 00:32:21]. In other words, if you wanted a putt like a tiger, you would first, we would first need to have his is putting profile, both in numerical sense and individual sense. And then, we could show that on the screen and then transpose yours against his, you could see the difference and then know where in your putting stroke where you’re applying too much pressure or not enough pressure or not enough even pressure.

Daniel Guiney: If he doesn’t want that out there. Right? Yeah. What if the

pros are feeling like their proprietary information?

Matthew Wells: Well, you can have to be, I mean, you know, that’s a good point that may be a problem that’s a problem as you have to be solved. I would say you could have not too good points you could not, you could specifically register them, anonymize it and then average them. I would say putt like tiger, I would let’s not say that…

Matthew Wells: That’s going to cost money.

Daniel Guiney: Yes. So, yeah. So my thought was these are my thoughts on that, right? I would say let’s be like, let’s forget about that for now because if that’s the goal, then you’re never gonna get there.

Matthew Wells: If what’s the goal?

Daniel Guiney: To have that be it like we know we’re ready to launch until we can save putt like a tiger. Let’s take that out of the equation because that’s such a high goal. It’s, you need so much data and you need so much runway for him to even pay attention, that’s all. 

Bryan Uribe: So I’d say, how could you get your product out into them?

And again, I’m speaking from the perspective of velocity to market. How can you get into the market as fast as possible and get this into a thousand people that don’t know you? And I think what you’re doing is more in, it’s very interesting because it’s not something where people could lie to you on is they know this is like, I’m not even asking you anything, I’m just asking you I just want to see like your data and then ultimately you get to the point where you ask for actual user feedback.

Matthew Wells: Well we got, we even with the 4 or 500 [Unintelligible 00:34:24] we had done so far. We’ve got mountains of data and it is interesting to see visually that the difference between what an eight-handicap player put a putting force looks like opposed to a no handicap player. 

Bryan Uribe: One of the things that I’d recommend, I would recommend thinking through a way to get live data on enough people where you’d be able to forecast the population of 50 million people. So in other words, what sample size do you need to be able to represent 50 million people? Get data from those people across several games as called this 15 or whatever it may be. Something that enough for you to be able to average it. And if you could be within a 95% confidence ratio with one standard deviation, look at me using my statistics degree, my statistics class or whatever it is. Yeah, but if you could get something like that, that sexy.

Matthew Wells: Sure. There’s no doubt, the more data we generate the more we learn and the more it’ll have an impact on every player. 

Daniel Guiney: So I think right now, what you have is interesting because

you could put it out there and say, hey guys, this is what we found and then get some people to be interested and maybe sign up and like say, Hey, I want to join in on the alpha.

Bryan Uribe: The problem with data and most people, it’s kind of like oil and water and they don’t mix. So the challenge there is taking that data and distilling it down in a way that it’s palatable for the guy that just wants to go out and play golf. The last thing we want is to have this technology to get in between the player and their love for the game, you know, so the real challenge is coming up with a product that distills that data down to a point that it’s painless and almost invisible in the background running.


I can argue that the visualization of the data of graph and when it’s in live put mode or strike mode or whatever it is we want to call it, just have a circle with pressure and just have it like visualize like that and that’s it. We don’t want to show them anything else in terms of getting interested in its infographic.

DANIEL GUINEY: Does it utilize live while you’re gripping it if you’re in the right range of measure?

Daniel Guiney: Is the visualization of your notes on your phone?

Matthew Wells: It’s on the phone.

Daniel Guiney: I wonder if it would be any benefit to…

Bryan Uribe: I got an idea.

Daniel Guiney: If I got light or something on there, like something very


Matthew Wells: We need a tamper in the conversation a bit sure.

Daniel Guiney: Yeah, sure.

Matthew Wells: We’ve already done a lot of that.

Daniel Guiney: Sure. Okay.

Matthew Wells: It’s all good stuff.

Daniel Guiney: But yeah, I keep it all.

Matthew Wells: I don’t want to understand.

Daniel Guiney: That’s awesome. But the secret sauce…

Matthew Wells: Again, the real problem to solve there is being able to take that data and provide it to the player and it painless, easy to digest.

Daniel Guiney: Why?

Matthew Wells: That doesn’t get in the way of loving the game you’re playing.

Bryan Uribe:  Awesome, get yourself an awesome UX designer, they’ll figure it out.

Daniel Guiney:  It’s on that point. Why don’t we bring this around full circle, awesome conversation before we dive back in and get into another rabbit hole? So the final question. So remind the audience who you are, what you do and why should they care?

Matthew Wells: Why should they care? Okay. Again, the name is Matthew Wells, I’m an industrial designer and currently working in the

field of the integration of 3D print and sensor technology, we are developing products that are designed to solve problems having to do with the interaction that people have between themselves and the object that they’re engaged with. In the case of sporting goods, it may have to do with how you hold your tennis racket or your golf club. In the case of the medical field, it may have to do with measuring how your burns are healing and how they’re protected. I don’t know, Am I doing well?

Daniel Guiney: That was awesome.

Bryan Uribe: And why should they care?

Matthew Wells: Why should you care? Well, if you play golf and you want a lower handicap, you want to check out performance sports. If you’re ever going to break a limb, you’re gonna want to be visiting the orthopedist who uses our software and our technology to provide you with the proper healing devices, that are custom made for you.

Daniel Guiney: I’m Daniel Guiney and that’s a wrap signing off. All right, awesome. We appreciate it. That was very cool; this is such a cool product.

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